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Discussion Starter #1
before my post, I want to say that:

#1: I will be calling the dealer on this problem

#2: I have done a search of existing forums

With that said, I'm curious if anyone has had a similar experience. I bought my 2002 EX-RES in Tucson in early December 2001 (love it!) Here in AZ, almost all new cars are treated with tinting. What I have noticed is not the usual "bubbling" that one sees with bad tint jobs, but rather a mosaic/cobblestone/crystalline artifact on all the auto glass that truly becomes annoying, not to mention potentially unsafe at odd sun angles. Initally, I thought this was some sort of hard water artefact, but indeed the problem is within the glass and not on the surface. Sound familiar to anyone? Any Ody owners in the Southwest have similar problems? I'll report back what the dealer says to the forum shortly.

Eric
 

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Discussion Starter #2
well so far the service department needs to clarify whether the tinting is an after-market job done as part of the deal or whether the glass is just standard tinted glass. they will get back to me. also sent an email to PPG (the maker of the auto glass for Odys) to inform them of the problem. we'll see....
 

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Discussion Starter #3
apparently, the driver and passenger side windows are after-market tint jobs while the remaining glass is factory. This artefact is uniform on all the glass so I'm a bit confused. I'll going to take the van in one of the next few days to show them
 

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If what you are seeing almost looks like the glass is dirty or has been sand-blasted, then my Odyssey has the same thing. It looks like there's a ton of little dots/specs on it that won't come off.

I have thus far assumed that the dealer did something dumb like wash it and leave it wet in the sun w/ hard water, or get something on it that requires a solvent to remove.

However, since it isn't a huge problem, I've just kinda ignored it.

Are we talking about the same thing?

------------------
2002 Mesa Beige EX-L-RES w/ misaligned, hard to close driver door
 

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Discussion Starter #5
pummal,

no. what i have is certainly more than just dots and specs. i have innumerable, irregular, small, splotchy, mosaic/cobblestone/ameba-like areas that are highly refractile when the sun hits them. maybe i can post a digital pic sometime.

eric
 

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Auto glass is either laminated or toughened.
In the case of laminated glass, a piece of plastic is sandwitched between two pieces of glass and heat treated. The color of the plastic provides the tint effect. Laminated glass has the advantage which is the glass does not crumble when shattered into opaque glass crystals, rather you get a cracked glass [the inner glass holds and the plastic holds the broken pieces together]

In the case of the toughened glass, the glass is cut, heated, molded into shape and then heat treated by directing multiple air jets on the surface to prestress the glass. This process creates a regular [diamond/square] pattern which is visible in sunlight at an particular angle but has no effect on the through the glass visibility.

Ody glass is Toughened. Look in the glass etchings on the bottom corner of the glass.

Unless the pattern is non-symmetric and non-regular and does not contain impurities or air bubbles, I will not worry about it.

Then again, this advise is worth what you are paying for.


[This message has been edited by starlight (edited 01-22-2002).]

[This message has been edited by starlight (edited 01-23-2002).]
 

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Discussion Starter #7
starlight,

thanks for the post. your explanation is the closest for describing what I am seeing with my glass. Indeed, when looked at "straight-on" this patterned artefact is barely-to-not visible. My question, though, is if you're explanation is correct, does "toughened" glass always look dirty (as mine does)?

Eric
 

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Check your windshield and see if it is different. I believe US regulations require the windshield to be laminated, but the rest of the windows are typically tempered, which I believe is what was meant by toughened.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
nds,

as a person who deals with motor vehicle collisions on a regular basis, I agree that windshield glass is never tempered and always laminated. passenger and other windows are virtually always tempered glass. Is tempered synonymous with toughened?

Eric
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by edp10:
nds,

Is tempered synonymous with toughened?

Eric
</font>
I am only guessing that it may be. I had never before heard the term "toughened" applied to glass. It is sort of what the tempering process does.
 

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nds, edp10 [Eric]
Yes, Both Toughened and tempered are same.
And both types are heat treated for pre-stressing.

Sorry for the confusion.


"Toughened" is the British Equivalent for "Tempered"

The Windshield is Safety Laminated, whereas the side windows are "Tempered".

Due to the plastic sheet inside the sandwitched glass, you will not have a optically clean view, it would appear that there is a little opacity, which appears as dirty film, rather than dust.

What you should not have is any pitting on the glass.

By the way, It is Float glass which is used to manufacture auto windshields and side window glasses.

As an aside, The "splotchy"ness should be significantly more visible when seen through a Polarised glass.

Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by starlight (edited 01-23-2002).]
 

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EDP, I bought my van from Tucson too, but live north of Phoenix/Cave Creek. I have not noticed anything so far, then again I never sit in the back nor have my front window's tinted...yet. I will check it out soon and advise...especially since I would like to add 'more' tint to the factory rear windows for privacy etc.
[email protected]

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2002 Silver EX
1996 VW Gti
1999 Pit Bull/Catahoula Leopard dogs
 

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Do you happen to be wearing polarized glasses when you view the splotchiness?

I see a somewhat regular "dot" pattern when looking out my rear window as well as in other cars' rear windows. This only occurs when wearing my polarized sunglasses.
 

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DAL,

To answer your question:

The splotchiness can also be seen without polarized glasses, when the lighting is at a particular angle to the glass.

It is just that the polarized glass shows them better without the need to be looking at the required angle.
 

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OdyRocky,

EDP, I bought my van from Tucson too, but live north of Phoenix/Cave Creek. I have not noticed anything so far, then again I never sit in the back nor have my front window's tinted...yet. I will check it out soon and advise...especially since I would like to add 'more' tint to the factory rear windows for privacy etc.

Perhaps you know this: when you add more tint, be aware that the metallic tints may affect the signal of cell phones as well as any rear window etched/mounted diversity antennas [the stock ODY does not have these antennas ...] you may have added to your van.
 

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Starlight,
Thanks for the additional information, actually I need to put some 'electronic communication' gear inside the van occasionally for work and will have to research the possible effects of additional tint. Historically I have used metallic tint on my personal cars since it does not fade dull purple...I will advise if any problems come up, thx again!

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2002 Silver EX
1996 VW Gti
1999 Pit Bull/Catahoula Leopard dogs
 

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Discussion Starter #17
well I just dropped it off to the dealer today. First I showed it to the sales guy who sold me the car and he looked at the "bubbling" just as quizzically as I did. He retreated to the shop area and returned with a bottle of Sprite (personally I tried vinegar, Windex, and whatever auto glass cleaner I had in the garage). He proclaimed, "Sprite will get out anything." Wrong. He, like I, duplicated his effort to the interior glass with no effect.

So it was off to the service manager who looked at it and then promptly and confidently proclaimed, "These are hard water spots!" Leave the car with me for the afternoon, he said, and his detail guy will get the glass clean. My sales friend and I looked at each other with a raised eyebow. Once out of earshot, my sales guy said that he agreed with me that the spots are not hard water, but I guess that's why the other guy was the service manager. If they can "clean" these spots I'll be suprised but relieved.

Stay tuned...

Eric
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well it was indeed stained glass and not a defect. The service manager thinks it was one of two possibilities. Hard water tops the list. Acid rain is #2. The staining was confined to the glass (and not the paint job) because of differing surface properties. So the next question is how and where did these "lethal" hard water stains arise. Well, I wash my cars in my driveway with the same hose water; my other car doesn't have these stains so I doubt it's my water. The service manager thinks that the Ody was probably parked near a sprinkler system (or whatever) that was using water high in mineral content (e.g., reclaimed water), throw in a bit of sun and voila! a chemical reaction that no ordinary cleaner can get off.

The product that they used is called ACID RAIN. I didn't bother to get the manufacturer of the product at the time and my internet search came up empty. I guess I'll have to call em' back.

Phew!!! problem solved. Thanks for all your input.

Eric
 
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