[DP]

I've never driven a vehicle with traction control prior to Odyssey. I had an impression that the traction control system does not allow tires to slip when accelerating, and that I expected from my Odyssey. However, today in two occasions I had to accelerate quickly form the full stop, and my tires slipped significantly on the dry pavement, for a second or more.
Is that normal? If it is, what is traction control for? If not, what should be done to fix the problem?

 

[pummal]

Have you got a yellow TCS light on in your dash?

If you do, it is off. I know when I purchased my Ody, the salesperson told me I had to press TCS and see the yellow light for it to work. The Honda owners manual confirms the opposite. The presence of that TCS light means the system is not working either because you turned it off or it is broken.

Incidentally, the yellow TCS light should come on for a few seconds upon turning your key, flash while it is actively doing something, and be off whenever it is "waiting" to do something.

Check it out... if your TCS light is not on, and you get wheelspin under 18mph, I'd say take your Ody to the dealer.

------------------
2001 Mesa Beige EX

 

[DP]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pummal:
if your TCS light is not on, and you get wheelspin under 18mph, I'd say take your Ody to the dealer.
</font>

Thank you for the advice, I will definitely do so (the TCS light was off).


[This message has been edited by DP (edited 08-10-2001).]

 

[timbuk2002]

Maybe this should go under dealer stories, but the salesman who demo'd an Ody for us explained that with the traction control system, "only one wheel is pulling the van under normal circumstances... When that wheel slips, power is transferred to the other wheel." I let that comment slide, but discounted the rest of what he had to say.

In reality, of course, the opposite is true. The only time I could imagine 1 wheel pulling the van is if you had one side of the it on pavement and the other side on ice with a little snow thrown in for good measure. I think Audi did this in one of their old car commercials.

 

[bluesramsrock]

"only one wheel is pulling the van under normal circumstances... When that wheel slips, power is transferred to the other wheel." I let that comment slide, but discounted the rest of what he had to say.
In reality, of course, the opposite is true. The only time I could imagine 1 wheel pulling the van is if you had one side of the it on pavement and the other side on ice with a little snow thrown in for good measure. I think Audi did this in one of their old car commercials."

Actually the dealer was right, unless you have a car with 4 or all wheel drive, or posi-traction, power is transferred to only one wheel.

 

[CPSDarren]

When both wheels have traction, don't both wheels get power? I do know that with an open differential (the type on almost all front wheel drive cars), you will lose traction if only one wheel slips, since the differential will then send all the power to the slipping wheel.

Traction control systems that apply brakes to the spinning wheel effectively eliminate the spin, and allow some power to be transferred to the wheel that is not slipping.

Slip-limiting differentials and locking differentials usually allow more power to be transferred to the wheel(s) with traction. They also generally respond faster and can operate at higher speeds.

Anyway, traction control is not going to prevent slipping, but it will be an improvement in some situations over an identical vehicle with no traction control.

There are a few systems which can tranfer power to any of the 4 wheels. Some (Benz and Audi I think) combine a slip-limiting center differential with traction control to send power side to side. Others like Jeep's Quadra Drive use mechanical systems on all 3 differentials. Even these vehicles will slip in very bad conditions, but 4 wheels are better than 3, or 2, or just 1...

[This message has been edited by caviller (edited 08-10-2001).]

 

[pummal]

I agree w/ caviller..
The differential is "lazy", so the TCS puts the brakes on that wheel to make it "easier" for the differential to give power to the other one. Do this enough times per second, and you should have a good balance of power.

Besides...If the van was being pulled by only one wheel when both have traction, you'd definitely feel a pull in your steering.


------------------
2001 Mesa Beige EX

 

[Canodyssey]

Yes Caviller is right. Both front wheels will be driven equally if both tires have equal traction. The power is normally transmitted to the path of least resistance so if a wheel spins on ice all the power will go through that wheel. By braking that wheel the TCS allows the power to be redirected to the wheel with traction.

If only one wheel got power normally you would see hordes of odysseys going in wide circles!

By researching a vehicle for an hour on the internet you would gain more knowledge than a salesman does in a lifetime....

 

[ody]

Yeah, I agree with cavillers descriptions. There are many ways to control wheelspin-limited slip, locking diffs, various traction controls etc. Some are more effective than others and are more suitable for different conditions (i.e. hardcore 4 wheeling vs. all weather traction).

 

[DP]

Just returned from the dealer. They checked the system and said all is OK. They demonstrated that with wheels hanged - the TCS worked (the TCS light flashed, and the sound was just the same as with working ABS).

That left me confused - why it didn't work in real life? The mechanic said it should work on wet/snow, but he was not sure about dry pavement. For me it sounds ridiculous - it should work even better on dry. Or I miss something here? Anyway, I will wait for the next rain and try it on wet.


[This message has been edited by DP (edited 08-10-2001).]

 

[DP]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pummal:
if your TCS light is not on, and you get wheelspin under 18mph, I'd say take your Ody to the dealer.
</font>

Where did you get that number (18 mph) from?
I thought that TCS is much more in need on higher speeds. If 18mph is its limit indeed, I don't think it worth money :-(
Then, TCS shares some of the main functionality with ABS. As far as I know, there is no any speed restrictions for ABS to operate - why it should be for TCS?


[This message has been edited by DP (edited 08-10-2001).]

 

[CPSDarren]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DP:
Where did you get that number (18 mph) from?
I thought that TCS is much more in need on higher speeds. If 18mph is its limit indeed, I don't think it worth money :-(
Then, TCS shares some of the main functionality with ABS. As far as I know, there is no any speed restrictions for ABS to operate - why it should be for TCS?


[This message has been edited by DP (edited 08-10-2001).]</font>

Honda's system, like most traction control systems are low-speed only, mostly to prevent wear on the brakes. Their main purpose is to add some traction in poor conditions from a complete stop.

Again, while it is better than a vehicle with no traction control, it is not a guarantee that you will never slip or get stuck. If both front tires lose traction, you'll spin just as easily as if one tire lost traction without traction control.

Just ask any driver of an invincible 4WD SUV that gets stuck on the side of the road in the first snowstorm that hits.

 

[pummal]

I got the 18mph number from the Owner's manual.

Might want to try reading it

------------------
2001 Mesa Beige EX

 

[DDakRT]

DP, what caviller said was really HOW traction control works, but not WHY it works.

To answer your question, your system is working just fine, the system need a little time to control the spin. It's not just spin and no spin like a switch, there are mechanical forces at work here and it need time to control it.
If you switch TC off and floor it at a stand still, the wheels will spin for about 5 seconds but with TC on, maybe 1 1/2 seconds. (tried it today

)

As for the speed limit of around 18mph, the Ody doesn't have the power to spin it's tire at or remotely near that speed, so a all speed TC system is just a waste of money.

TC and ABS has the exect opposite function. While ABS tries to prevent the tires from locking up (kind of like increasing the tire speed so it is at the same speed with the road), the TC tries to decrease the tire rotation relative to the road (slowing the tires).
Because you can lock up the tires at high speed if enough pressure is applied, ABS works at all speed, but it is very highly unlikely the Ody will be able to spin it's tire at a moderate speed, so the system only works at a lower speed.

I think you got TC confused with stability control. TC only has function during acceleration to keep the tires at the same speed relative to the vehicle itself. Stability control tries to prevent you from spining.

BTW where in Toronto do you live?

 

[DP]

Thank you all for clarification.
I will try to experiment with TCS to see how it works.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DDakRT:
I think you got TC confused with stability control. TC only has function during acceleration to keep the tires at the same speed relative to the vehicle itself. Stability control tries to prevent you from spining.</font>

Yes, it is possible that I mixed these two things up. And you know probably why? In the Honda CR-V & Odyssey 2001 brochure that I got from the dealer, there is a figure illustrating how TCS works.
Here it is:

Any comments?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
BTW where in Toronto do you live? </font>

Bloor West Village


[This message has been edited by DP (edited 08-11-2001).]

 

[DP]

I am not sure why the picture in my previous podting does not show up sometimes. Here is the URL:

http://www.geocities.com/dp0dy/OdyTCSa.jpg

 

[moonatics]

I don't know much about TCS, but I was told by my salesperson that you should not use it unless it is raining or snowing. Is this true?

 

[gbaxley]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moonatics:
I don't know much about TCS, but I was told by my salesperson that you should not use it unless it is raining or snowing. Is this true? </font>

My dipstick salesman told me the same thing. When I asked "Why?" he said that it would wear out the system. He also had the position of the switch backwards. I believe the owners manual says to leave it on all the time, unless there is a mechanical problem.

cheers,

------------------
gbaxley
'01 TW EX

 

[buzz4bass]

Good on you guys!!
Lagreat(JPN ver.of Ody)doesn't have TCS. We cannot choose even as an option.
I hope from the big change of 2002 TCS should be equipped to Lagreat too!

Anyway TCS talk was pretty interesting.

 

[DDakRT]

DP, your pic is still not working, but I think I know what you are talking about (the overhead shot with two "S" shaped road with three Odys on each and it's labeled "ice, snow, and water right?) Anyway that pic is pretty much misleading.

As for leaving the TC on, don't worry about it, nothing will happened, it's not a mechanical system but a computer with sensors. You can wear out the sensors (right, in about 50 million miles!) but unless there is a problem to begin with, the TC system can operate as many times as it needs to.