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Discussion Starter #1
Aaaahhhh!!!!!!!
The return of the transmission clunk thread!!
The thread that wouldn't die!

For the record, I have an early 2001.
I took delivery on Nov, 2001. My Odyssey
exhibits both the "dieseling" and on rarer occasions, the D4 to R clunk.

I've read all the old posts regarding the clunk, but nobody seemed to have gotten a good answer from a technician at the time.

I unearthed a few posts on this topic from www.edmunds.com. Here are two posts by odysfan, who seems knowledgeable about our transmission. I don't know if odyfan is on this forum.

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#522 of 1409  Auburn63, questions on Honda automatic transaxle. by odyfan United States of America  Mar 09, 2001 (07:56 pm) Mark

Hello Auburn63,
Unlike other major auto
manufacturers(Ford,GM,Toyota,Maza,Nissan ...,) Honda automatic transaxle does not employ planetary gear system; instead, it use a pararell shaft system similar to manual transaxle. Are there any technical advantages of such a design? or just for the cost saving, perhaps?
During reverse engagement with this system, the countershaft reverse gear is engaged by the movement of the reverse selector onto reverse selector hub by a shift fork activated by a servo valve. Is the reverse selector hub being used as a manual transaxle synchronizer in this case? Perhaps the reverse engagement noise that I've heard is caused by the impact of reverse selector onto reverse selector hub. I am still wondering why the noise only occur if the D4 is engaged first.
Onto towing an Ody, Honda warns that gear should be engaged at N from D4, not from R, or damages to transaxle will occur. Is this because the gears are meshed differently At N eventhough all clutchs are released?
Thanks you for your comments!
Happy driving
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#525 of 1409  odyfan by auburn63 United States of America   Mar 10, 2001 (07:49 pm) Mark

Honda does feel that their trans design will last longer than that of a stacked trans. I don't think it is a dollar thing because Honda transmissions parts are some what expensive.  Internaly they are set up alot like a manual trans is but the clutch packs don't do as good of a job as a syncro does.Most of the engagement noise is because of a lack of a syncro of some sort and the straight cut of a reverse gear.They don't always line up and as the gear is trying to engage it sometimes loads up until it pops in.In the older ones it would make a bad ratcheting sound as it played roulet falling into gear : ).
 Don't know the answer the the towing question so i will have to check out the book and if I remember I will ask tech line..

After some researching, I believe that I've found the cause of the reverse engagement noise from D4. It's coming from the "counter-shaft reverse selector" smashing the counter-shaft reverse gear while trying to engage into it from counter-shaft 4th gear. The reason for noise to occur only from D4 is "reverse selector" being moved only when direction is changed. This also explains why Honda advice when towing an Ody with the front wheel on ground, the van needs to be shifted to D4 first, then into N. Otherwise, reverse gear would be engaged insteads of the 4th gear by reverse selector. I've noticed that neither counter-shaft reverse gear nor counter-shaft 4th gear have synchros to ease the engagements. Due to this particular "BAD??" design, therefore, slight movement of countershaft while shifting from D to R or R to D will cause extreme loud engagement noises and will do major damage to both set of gear. Also, the infamous "Bang in Reverse" is caused by - guess what? - "reverse selector" not fully engaging the counter-shaft reverse gear. The TSB# is A00-065, issued by Honda on 8/22/2000.
Well, I think I have done enough analysis on the Honda automatic transmission. My wife is really upset because she think I spent too much time with the Ody!

BTW, my next car will be from Honda, and it will have a manual transmission!
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#642 of 1409  dcf1 and All who concerns about reverse clunk by odyfan United States of America  Apr 03, 2001 (08:00 pm)
Mark

Due to internal design, "ALL" automatic transmissions from Honda and Acura, except Passport, will emit a clunk noise whenever shifting from D4 to R or R to D4 with vehicle standing still. The noise is due to the servo activated shift-fork moving the reverse selector smashing against counter-shaft reverse gear or counter-shaft 4th gear, depending which way shift lever is moved. The "BAD!!" part of this particular design is Honda does not use syncronizers with the reverse selector, therefore slight movement of vehicle and hence the counter-shaft will ruin the counter-shaft reverse gear or counter-shaft 4th gear. This is another reason not to shift to N every time approaching a stop sign. Beside increasing wear and tear of clutch pack, there is very possibility of shifting into R while the car still moving. Also, rocking out of mud or snow by shifting between D4 and R is guaranteed for transmission demise. There are advantages of Honda's design: No planetary gear sets means no Bands to wear out, therefore less friction materials flowing in ATF to cause problems and hydraulic control circuits are less complicated and hence less chances for malfunctioning. However, without planetary gear sets, Honda need to use a design similar to standard manual transmission by utilizing a couter-shaft for reverse direction. Because of this design, replacing trany will not eliminate the engagement noise and that is why TSB A00-065 inform Dealer the noise is normal and not to replace the transmission.
Now, onto fuzy grade logic, I believe Honda should take that out of Ody's PCM. instead put in a push button for over-drive similar to the one on Sienna. Due to the heavy mass of Ody, momentum keeps vehicle speed to change slowly and if someone, knowingly or unconciously, feathering the gas pedal, he or she can make the PCM to confuse and hence locking and unlocking the converter's clucth. This oscillation is bad for the coverter's clutch friction plate and perhaps the consequence: the chattering noise of which some of Ody's owners have been experiencing.
So, here are few suggestions for prolonging the life of Honda automatic transmission:
- Do make sure to stop completely before changing gear (from R to D, or D to R)
- Don't feathering gas pedal so that torque converter lockup clutch will oscillate.
- Try not to shift to N for each stop sign.
- Buy a manual trany vehicles from Honda, not Automatic vehicles. perhaps that will send a message to Honda to fix the reverse selector problem once for all and removing that stupid fuzy "GRAVE" logic.

Above are just my humble opinions, so please be nice to me
when responses. Thanks!

Happy driving
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Any opinions on this?
Odyfan, are you out there? :)

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Nelson
2001 Odyssey LX - Silver
2001 Civic EX Sedan - Silver
1990 Mustang LX Coupe - Titanium
 

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I too was concerned and surprised when I heard "manual" gear meshing/clunking sounds coming out of the trans while engaging Reverse.
Considering the potential for serious damage, there really is inadequate warning given by Honda about the operation of their trans. Maybe they should have called it a "semi"-automatic transmission.


The problem is only compounded by the imprecise and non-intuitive action of the shift lever. I mean, designing a user friendly shift lever is pretty basic, right? I'm getting used to it, but that was my biggest gripe when I got the van. (Sorry for the rant.)

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SoFlaOdyssey:
My Odyssey exhibits both the "dieseling" and on rarer occasions, the D4 to R clunk.
</font>

Thanks for the great info.

What do you mean by "dieseling?"

I have the clunk problem, too. It diminishes if I warm up the engine for at least a minute from a cold start and when I make a full stop prior to changing gears.

I'm disappointed that the problem affects all automatic Honda. I'll be looking for an economical car soon and I was thinking of the Civic, but after reading your post I may look into the Corolla. What do you guys think?

I'm curious to know the 'Ratio on Replaced Transmissions on the Ody (99-02 models)'. I wonder if it's 1 in 100 or if it's 1 in 10.
If it is 1 in 10 then I should forget about buying the Segway.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The "dieseling" sound occurs when the torque converter locks up in 4th gear. This happens around 46 miles per hour.

If you are CRUISING around 50-55mph, you should be able to hear it. If you are accelerating past those speeds, you might not hear it, as you'd be skipping over the problem range.

The sound is like a grinding-metallic sound. It almost sounds like the engine is pinging, like when the RPM's are too low on a manual trans vehicle?

I was told by the dealer that it was a torque converter problem, but then I've read about other situations where it seems to be the shift cable?!?!?!

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Nelson
2001 Odyssey LX - Silver
2001 Civic EX Sedan - Silver
1990 Mustang LX Coupe - Titanium
 

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My 00 Ody has had two transmission replacements. Yes, my Ody is now using its third transmission. All three transmissions have exhibited the torque converter "dieseling" noise, but Honda technicians say the noise is independent of the tranny failures. The front transaxle (or driveshaft) also needed replacement with each of the bad transmissions. Replacement alone hasn't solved the problems and I fully expect that tranny #3 will go bad as well. Does anybody have any idea how to put an end to the transmission madness??? Something outside the transmission itself must have something to do with these failures.

Cauchy
 

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Discussion Starter #6
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cauchy:
Does anybody have any idea how to put an end to the transmission madness??? Something outside the transmission itself must have something to do with these failures.
Cauchy
</font>
I'm sorry about your misfortune with the Odyssey. I had a brake problem that required multiple visits to the dealer with our 1998 Taurus (I really liked that car, too!) and ended up filing a "Lemon" complaint.

You might want to look into this.

Good luck!




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Nelson
2001 Odyssey LX - Silver
2001 Civic EX Sedan - Silver
1990 Mustang LX Coupe - Titanium
 

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SoFlaOdyssey - That "dieseling" probably does occur, but I usually cruise around 75-80 mph with the 1665s blasting.
That's just how southern California drivers are. I'll try to restrain myself from speeding and to listen for it.


Cauchy - BUMMER!
Sorry to hear about your trany problems. Look into the 'lemon law.' I have a 96 Dodge Caravan and I went through the 'lemon law' with it. Unfortunately, the dealers were able to fix the problems. It's so frustrating when you buy a new vehicle and end up with a lemon. Best of luck.
 

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Honda has not been responsive to this problem and I consider to file a "Lemon Complaint" but has never done it before. Do I need to get an attorney? Can someone share the experience? I really appreciate it!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I went through the "Lemon" process with my 1998 Ford Taurus SE ( I REALLY did like that car :-( ) and I DO NOT think that you need a lawyer.

I even attended 2 lemon "hearings" before my own was scheduled to see what I was in for, and one of the complaintants had a lawyer. He looked useless to me.

Just have all your facts straight, records of all service performed at the dealership (this is warranty service I assume) and you should be ok.

In Florida, the alleged problem must affect the safety or value of the vehicle, or must substantially impair the enjoyment of the vehicle.

Good luck!



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Nelson
2001 Odyssey LX - Silver
2001 Civic EX Sedan - Silver
1990 Mustang LX Coupe - Titanium
 

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I think it's best if you contact an attorney who is very familiar with lemon law in your state and find out if you have a case. Make sure the firm litigates lemon law cases to avoid getting a flunky from some law firm.

Although the manufacturer was able to fix the problems, the attorney's fees were paid by the manufacturer. You won't get any money compensation. The best that you'll get is a new vehicle or a refund of your money on the vehicle.

Best of luck.
 
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