Joined
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135 Posts
Aaaahhhh!!!!!!!
The return of the transmission clunk thread!!
The thread that wouldn't die!
For the record, I have an early 2001.
I took delivery on Nov, 2001. My Odyssey
exhibits both the "dieseling" and on rarer occasions, the D4 to R clunk.
I've read all the old posts regarding the clunk, but nobody seemed to have gotten a good answer from a technician at the time.
I unearthed a few posts on this topic from www.edmunds.com. Here are two posts by odysfan, who seems knowledgeable about our transmission. I don't know if odyfan is on this forum.
--------------------------------
#522 of 1409 Auburn63, questions on Honda automatic transaxle. by odyfan United States of America Mar 09, 2001 (07:56 pm) Mark
Hello Auburn63,
Unlike other major auto
manufacturers(Ford,GM,Toyota,Maza,Nissan ...,) Honda automatic transaxle does not employ planetary gear system; instead, it use a pararell shaft system similar to manual transaxle. Are there any technical advantages of such a design? or just for the cost saving, perhaps?
During reverse engagement with this system, the countershaft reverse gear is engaged by the movement of the reverse selector onto reverse selector hub by a shift fork activated by a servo valve. Is the reverse selector hub being used as a manual transaxle synchronizer in this case? Perhaps the reverse engagement noise that I've heard is caused by the impact of reverse selector onto reverse selector hub. I am still wondering why the noise only occur if the D4 is engaged first.
Onto towing an Ody, Honda warns that gear should be engaged at N from D4, not from R, or damages to transaxle will occur. Is this because the gears are meshed differently At N eventhough all clutchs are released?
Thanks you for your comments!
Happy driving
------------------------------------------
#525 of 1409 odyfan by auburn63 United States of America Mar 10, 2001 (07:49 pm) Mark
Honda does feel that their trans design will last longer than that of a stacked trans. I don't think it is a dollar thing because Honda transmissions parts are some what expensive. Internaly they are set up alot like a manual trans is but the clutch packs don't do as good of a job as a syncro does.Most of the engagement noise is because of a lack of a syncro of some sort and the straight cut of a reverse gear.They don't always line up and as the gear is trying to engage it sometimes loads up until it pops in.In the older ones it would make a bad ratcheting sound as it played roulet falling into gear : ).
Don't know the answer the the towing question so i will have to check out the book and if I remember I will ask tech line..
After some researching, I believe that I've found the cause of the reverse engagement noise from D4. It's coming from the "counter-shaft reverse selector" smashing the counter-shaft reverse gear while trying to engage into it from counter-shaft 4th gear. The reason for noise to occur only from D4 is "reverse selector" being moved only when direction is changed. This also explains why Honda advice when towing an Ody with the front wheel on ground, the van needs to be shifted to D4 first, then into N. Otherwise, reverse gear would be engaged insteads of the 4th gear by reverse selector. I've noticed that neither counter-shaft reverse gear nor counter-shaft 4th gear have synchros to ease the engagements. Due to this particular "BAD??" design, therefore, slight movement of countershaft while shifting from D to R or R to D will cause extreme loud engagement noises and will do major damage to both set of gear. Also, the infamous "Bang in Reverse" is caused by - guess what? - "reverse selector" not fully engaging the counter-shaft reverse gear. The TSB# is A00-065, issued by Honda on 8/22/2000.
Well, I think I have done enough analysis on the Honda automatic transmission. My wife is really upset because she think I spent too much time with the Ody!
![]()
BTW, my next car will be from Honda, and it will have a manual transmission!
------------------------------------------
#642 of 1409 dcf1 and All who concerns about reverse clunk by odyfan United States of America Apr 03, 2001 (08:00 pm)
Mark
Due to internal design, "ALL" automatic transmissions from Honda and Acura, except Passport, will emit a clunk noise whenever shifting from D4 to R or R to D4 with vehicle standing still. The noise is due to the servo activated shift-fork moving the reverse selector smashing against counter-shaft reverse gear or counter-shaft 4th gear, depending which way shift lever is moved. The "BAD!!" part of this particular design is Honda does not use syncronizers with the reverse selector, therefore slight movement of vehicle and hence the counter-shaft will ruin the counter-shaft reverse gear or counter-shaft 4th gear. This is another reason not to shift to N every time approaching a stop sign. Beside increasing wear and tear of clutch pack, there is very possibility of shifting into R while the car still moving. Also, rocking out of mud or snow by shifting between D4 and R is guaranteed for transmission demise. There are advantages of Honda's design: No planetary gear sets means no Bands to wear out, therefore less friction materials flowing in ATF to cause problems and hydraulic control circuits are less complicated and hence less chances for malfunctioning. However, without planetary gear sets, Honda need to use a design similar to standard manual transmission by utilizing a couter-shaft for reverse direction. Because of this design, replacing trany will not eliminate the engagement noise and that is why TSB A00-065 inform Dealer the noise is normal and not to replace the transmission.
Now, onto fuzy grade logic, I believe Honda should take that out of Ody's PCM. instead put in a push button for over-drive similar to the one on Sienna. Due to the heavy mass of Ody, momentum keeps vehicle speed to change slowly and if someone, knowingly or unconciously, feathering the gas pedal, he or she can make the PCM to confuse and hence locking and unlocking the converter's clucth. This oscillation is bad for the coverter's clutch friction plate and perhaps the consequence: the chattering noise of which some of Ody's owners have been experiencing.
So, here are few suggestions for prolonging the life of Honda automatic transmission:
- Do make sure to stop completely before changing gear (from R to D, or D to R)
- Don't feathering gas pedal so that torque converter lockup clutch will oscillate.
- Try not to shift to N for each stop sign.
- Buy a manual trany vehicles from Honda, not Automatic vehicles. perhaps that will send a message to Honda to fix the reverse selector problem once for all and removing that stupid fuzy "GRAVE" logic.
Above are just my humble opinions, so please be nice to me
![]()
when responses. Thanks!
Happy driving
-------------------------------------------
Any opinions on this?
Odyfan, are you out there?
------------------
Nelson
2001 Odyssey LX - Silver
2001 Civic EX Sedan - Silver
1990 Mustang LX Coupe - Titanium
The return of the transmission clunk thread!!
The thread that wouldn't die!
For the record, I have an early 2001.
I took delivery on Nov, 2001. My Odyssey
exhibits both the "dieseling" and on rarer occasions, the D4 to R clunk.
I've read all the old posts regarding the clunk, but nobody seemed to have gotten a good answer from a technician at the time.
I unearthed a few posts on this topic from www.edmunds.com. Here are two posts by odysfan, who seems knowledgeable about our transmission. I don't know if odyfan is on this forum.
--------------------------------
#522 of 1409 Auburn63, questions on Honda automatic transaxle. by odyfan United States of America Mar 09, 2001 (07:56 pm) Mark
Hello Auburn63,
Unlike other major auto
manufacturers(Ford,GM,Toyota,Maza,Nissan ...,) Honda automatic transaxle does not employ planetary gear system; instead, it use a pararell shaft system similar to manual transaxle. Are there any technical advantages of such a design? or just for the cost saving, perhaps?
During reverse engagement with this system, the countershaft reverse gear is engaged by the movement of the reverse selector onto reverse selector hub by a shift fork activated by a servo valve. Is the reverse selector hub being used as a manual transaxle synchronizer in this case? Perhaps the reverse engagement noise that I've heard is caused by the impact of reverse selector onto reverse selector hub. I am still wondering why the noise only occur if the D4 is engaged first.
Onto towing an Ody, Honda warns that gear should be engaged at N from D4, not from R, or damages to transaxle will occur. Is this because the gears are meshed differently At N eventhough all clutchs are released?
Thanks you for your comments!
Happy driving
------------------------------------------
#525 of 1409 odyfan by auburn63 United States of America Mar 10, 2001 (07:49 pm) Mark
Honda does feel that their trans design will last longer than that of a stacked trans. I don't think it is a dollar thing because Honda transmissions parts are some what expensive. Internaly they are set up alot like a manual trans is but the clutch packs don't do as good of a job as a syncro does.Most of the engagement noise is because of a lack of a syncro of some sort and the straight cut of a reverse gear.They don't always line up and as the gear is trying to engage it sometimes loads up until it pops in.In the older ones it would make a bad ratcheting sound as it played roulet falling into gear : ).
Don't know the answer the the towing question so i will have to check out the book and if I remember I will ask tech line..
After some researching, I believe that I've found the cause of the reverse engagement noise from D4. It's coming from the "counter-shaft reverse selector" smashing the counter-shaft reverse gear while trying to engage into it from counter-shaft 4th gear. The reason for noise to occur only from D4 is "reverse selector" being moved only when direction is changed. This also explains why Honda advice when towing an Ody with the front wheel on ground, the van needs to be shifted to D4 first, then into N. Otherwise, reverse gear would be engaged insteads of the 4th gear by reverse selector. I've noticed that neither counter-shaft reverse gear nor counter-shaft 4th gear have synchros to ease the engagements. Due to this particular "BAD??" design, therefore, slight movement of countershaft while shifting from D to R or R to D will cause extreme loud engagement noises and will do major damage to both set of gear. Also, the infamous "Bang in Reverse" is caused by - guess what? - "reverse selector" not fully engaging the counter-shaft reverse gear. The TSB# is A00-065, issued by Honda on 8/22/2000.
Well, I think I have done enough analysis on the Honda automatic transmission. My wife is really upset because she think I spent too much time with the Ody!
BTW, my next car will be from Honda, and it will have a manual transmission!
------------------------------------------
#642 of 1409 dcf1 and All who concerns about reverse clunk by odyfan United States of America Apr 03, 2001 (08:00 pm)
Mark
Due to internal design, "ALL" automatic transmissions from Honda and Acura, except Passport, will emit a clunk noise whenever shifting from D4 to R or R to D4 with vehicle standing still. The noise is due to the servo activated shift-fork moving the reverse selector smashing against counter-shaft reverse gear or counter-shaft 4th gear, depending which way shift lever is moved. The "BAD!!" part of this particular design is Honda does not use syncronizers with the reverse selector, therefore slight movement of vehicle and hence the counter-shaft will ruin the counter-shaft reverse gear or counter-shaft 4th gear. This is another reason not to shift to N every time approaching a stop sign. Beside increasing wear and tear of clutch pack, there is very possibility of shifting into R while the car still moving. Also, rocking out of mud or snow by shifting between D4 and R is guaranteed for transmission demise. There are advantages of Honda's design: No planetary gear sets means no Bands to wear out, therefore less friction materials flowing in ATF to cause problems and hydraulic control circuits are less complicated and hence less chances for malfunctioning. However, without planetary gear sets, Honda need to use a design similar to standard manual transmission by utilizing a couter-shaft for reverse direction. Because of this design, replacing trany will not eliminate the engagement noise and that is why TSB A00-065 inform Dealer the noise is normal and not to replace the transmission.
Now, onto fuzy grade logic, I believe Honda should take that out of Ody's PCM. instead put in a push button for over-drive similar to the one on Sienna. Due to the heavy mass of Ody, momentum keeps vehicle speed to change slowly and if someone, knowingly or unconciously, feathering the gas pedal, he or she can make the PCM to confuse and hence locking and unlocking the converter's clucth. This oscillation is bad for the coverter's clutch friction plate and perhaps the consequence: the chattering noise of which some of Ody's owners have been experiencing.
So, here are few suggestions for prolonging the life of Honda automatic transmission:
- Do make sure to stop completely before changing gear (from R to D, or D to R)
- Don't feathering gas pedal so that torque converter lockup clutch will oscillate.
- Try not to shift to N for each stop sign.
- Buy a manual trany vehicles from Honda, not Automatic vehicles. perhaps that will send a message to Honda to fix the reverse selector problem once for all and removing that stupid fuzy "GRAVE" logic.
Above are just my humble opinions, so please be nice to me
Happy driving
-------------------------------------------
Any opinions on this?
Odyfan, are you out there?
------------------
Nelson
2001 Odyssey LX - Silver
2001 Civic EX Sedan - Silver
1990 Mustang LX Coupe - Titanium
