[gsg]

I have a 2002 EX-L with less than 1000 miles on it - I have noticed a curious trend. While idling at a traffic light, say, it feels like the transmission has shifted into a drive gear, the van jumps a little bit like I have been nudged from behing. This happens regardless of whether the A/C/climate control is on or off.

I'm curious - is this normal, and if so, has anyone else noticed it? My other auto transmission vehicle (an Explorer) does not show this.

Thanks for any comments

 

[Canodyssey]

Curious. A few other 2002 owner have complained about engine surge at a stop. I assumed this was caused by the a/c compressor engaging and the sudden load on the engine causes the computer to raise to the rpm.
If this is happening when the a/c is off it is a totally different problem. I have not noticed this surge in my 2001.

 

[pummal]

Hmm... my 02 isn't here yet. But, I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that Honda used 3rd gear as the idle gear on the 5-speed tranny?

From HondaNews:
"Additionally, the creative use of the transmission's third gear also acts as the idle gear to provide five forward speeds at about the same weight and size as a typical four speed."

I believe that previously, the tranny had a neutral gear reserved for idle.

Anyknow know?
Carlos

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2002 Mesa Beige EX-L-RES - on order
2001 Mesa Beige EX - recently sold

 

[albaby]

The trannys are always in gear at idle,(unless you have selected neutral with the shift lever) with the torque converter providing slippage when at idle. They do not set in neutral and jump in gear when you step on the acclerator. I'm not sure what they meant by "idle gear" in Hondanews, but I suapect they are talking about the way the planetary gears are set up. I can't believe they are saying the tranny is in third gear in drive and at idle then drops down to first when you step on the gas. If so-then I am definitely going to keep an eye on this tranny.

Regards
Al

[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 10-24-2001).]

 

[Jerry O1]

I believe that the "idle gear" reference has not to do with the van at idle, but that it is a term used to indicate how the fifth gear was acheived, i.e. the third gear becomes an "idler gear" to acheive that fifth speed. Ford and Jeep have done the same thing a year or two ago and it has to do with getting five speeds out of a four-speed unit without redesigning the case. In the case of Jeep, there are even two different ratios for the same gear, depending whether the vehicle is accelerating or engine braking on a hill. Don't ask me how that works! I'm sure your vans are in low gear when they are idling at a stoplight.

Jerry O.

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2001 Odyssey GG LX

 

[chrisj2641]

I have the same problem. 2002 ex with less then 1000 miles. Several times I have felt this "bump". It does fell like someone in back of you rolled into you. I thought it was just me being too picky. Has to be a problem with the transmission.

 

[A. B. Hair]

I have felt the surge bump at a stop. I think it is the compressor. I simply keep my foot on the break. I don't feel this is a problem.

 

[Jerry O1]

DC had a problem with a "bump" when stopping and it was a late shift into first gear, i.e. the vehicle would come to a stop and then the transmission would go to low gear, causing a "bump".

Jerry O.

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2001 Odyssey GG LX

 

[albaby]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jerry O:
I believe that the "idle gear" reference has not to do with the van at idle, but that it is a term used to indicate how the fifth gear was acheived, i.e. the third gear becomes an "idler gear" to acheive that fifth speed. Ford and Jeep have done the same thing a year or two ago and it has to do with getting five speeds out of a four-speed unit without redesigning the case. In the case of Jeep, there are even two different ratios for the same gear, depending whether the vehicle is accelerating or engine braking on a hill. Don't ask me how that works! I'm sure your vans are in low gear when they are idling at a stoplight.

Jerry O.

</font>

I think you have it nailed, Jerry-on this and your following post.

Al

 

[Intrepid175]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by albaby:
I'm not sure what they meant by "idle gear" in Hondanews, but I suapect they are talking about the way the planetary gears are set up.

Regards
Al

</font>

I don't know for sure with the 5 speed. I was assuming it was similar in execution as the 4 speed. The 4 speed doesn't use a planetary gear set to produce it's four foward gears. The transmission is essentially a manual style gear set with different clutch packs on each gear ratio. It does have an idle gear that engages the 4th gear set (I think?) to produce a reverse.

Does anyone know if the 5 speed it built along the same lines or are they using a planetary gear set like the domestic auto makers use?

Just wondering?



------------------
Drive Safe,
Steve R.
'01 SS LX
Cargo tray, leather steering wheel, mud guards, alarm, fog lights, transmission cooler, in-dash CD player, Kelton subwoofer, under seat storage tray.

 

[albaby]

You are correct about the 4 speed, Steve R. At least as far as I can determine from the service manual.

Regards
Al

 

[ca12394]

I have a habit of shifting the transmission into neutral while waiting at traffic lights. This is to prevent being taken by surprise when the car suddenly surges forward due to the a/c or cooling fans coming on. (Actually, I started doing this years ago when, one day, I was waiting at a traffic light with the car facing downhill. My right foot felt itchy and I reached down to scratch it. Unbeknownst to me, the car started to roll downhill as my right foot started to lift off the brake pedal. If not for my father screaming at me, I sure would have my driver license revoked - by him, not the authorities!)

I have heard both pros and cons of this practice. Some say it's a good safety measure while others contend it's bad for the transmission etc. Any comments?

 

[Maugham]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ca12394:
...Some say it's a good safety measure...</font>

I'd challenge that as being universally true.

Anything that adds complexity to driving can detract from safety. Changing gears at every stop requires two additional actions.

There are the additional decisions to make - will I stop all the way, can I just coast up to where I'll stop, did I remember to put the car in neutral, should I take my eyes off the road to check the neutral/drive indicator, etc..

If a driver might wrongly scratch his foot, as you mention, he just as well might forget to put the car in neutral before scratching that foot.

The neutral/stop approach may work for some, but it's not something I'd want to teach my kids to do.

Regards,

------------------
Maugham

"I plan to live forever. So far, so good"
'02 RP EXL
'85 Prelude
'01 Ninja folding aluminum scooter
'00 New Balance Model 658 Shoes w/ Green grass stains and '01 White Laces

 

[Canodyssey]

CA12394 said:
Unbeknownst to me, the car started to roll downhill...

Were you expecting telegram?

I would not be shifting the car into neutral at a stop. I guess it goes back to my motorcycle days when I would make sure that I was in first gear with my wheel pointed slightly out so that if some yahoo came speeding up behind me I could power out of the way. If you are sitting there in neutral you have no choice but to take the impact.
Stay in drive it gives you more options in an emergency situation and will be less wear and tear on the tranny. I think it is alot safer too.

 

[Jerry O1]

No, it does not make sense to shift an automatic transmission into neutral at a stoplight. It really only causes more wear and tear on all the components. On the other hand, it makes a lot of sense in a stickshift car, since long "clutch-in" stops put a lot of wear and tear on the throwout bearing and can cause a lot of unnecessary labor (been there, done that). Keeping one's foot firmly on the brake at stoplights is the safest thing to do.

Jerry O.

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2001 Odyssey GG LX

 

[honda4]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by chrisj2641:
I have the same problem. 2002 ex with less then 1000 miles. Several times I have felt this "bump". It does fell like someone in back of you rolled into you. I thought it was just me being too picky. Has to be a problem with the transmission.</font>

I noticed the same problem on my 02 EXL (less than 1000 miles). (2 times .. the engine was warm and ac was on auto at 72F (probably off because the outside temp was below 40F).