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Any update/response to this request? I'm interested as well.

Jerry
Our 2006 EX-L had over 300,000 miles without a VCM disabler. We did have about a $600 bill to replace motor mounts at around 180k miles but that was it. Transmission held up just fine. But our highway driving was usually around 80 mph and the ECO rarely kicked in at that speed.
That said, I will be getting a disabler on our 2016 EX-L, as I’ve seen ECO at 77 mph on this van.
 

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Interesting. I'll have to check to be sure but IIRC my 2016 EXL is in ECO almost all of the time (unless I'm accelerating/going uphill) regardless of the speed. I tend to drive the freeways in the desert areas around 80 and I think it's in ECO most of the time. No problems so far with over 87k miles on it.
 

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With respect to vcm on this generation of odyssey, there is a Settled lawsuit and lots of stories of the piston rings essentially requiring an engine rebuild. Lots of stories and discussion on vcm on on this forum if you search.

haven’t heard of anyone having issues with the vcm inhibitor (muzzler) resulting inengine issues or the piston ring issuesthat the vcm appears to be causing.

If anything, those of us have done the muzzler are enjoying a better performing and responding engine
 

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As indicated in my first post in this thread (and first post on the forum overall...been lurking though!), I just picked up a 2016 Touring Elite to replace a 2015 EX-L. Y'all would recommend getting a VCM muzzler regardless of age and mileage, correct? (I would assume so, but I hate to assume and rather ask out right so there's no ambiguity).

And as an edit, I mentioned the "RES" in my first post in this thread, but I meant the Parking Sensor, NOT the Rear Entertainment System! I guess I wasn't thinking correctly and thought RES was an acronym pertaining to the Rear...(something) Sensors, LOL.
 

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As indicated in my first post in this thread (and first post on the forum overall...been lurking though!), I just picked up a 2016 Touring Elite to replace a 2015 EX-L. Y'all would recommend getting a VCM muzzler regardless of age and mileage, correct? (I would assume so, but I hate to assume and rather ask out right so there's no ambiguity).

And as an edit, I mentioned the "RES" in my first post in this thread, but I meant the Parking Sensor, NOT the Rear Entertainment System! I guess I wasn't thinking correctly and thought RES was an acronym pertaining to the Rear...(something) Sensors, LOL.
Congrats on the purchase!

Disabling the VCM on '11 and above is recommended by the most knowledgeable people on this forum. Although the settled lawsuit over the VCM related issues is limited to '13 and below, some members have reported symptoms with newer models and Honda has contributed to the repair bill on those reported. The motor mounts take a beating with VCM enabled as well, so a small investment in a known, safe muzzling device up front is great insurance at a pittance for preventing ridiculously expensive repairs.

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We still have five months on the 4yr 50k miles power train warranty n our 2016 EX-L. Will the muzzler affect warranty coverage or warranty work if needed? Is the VCM tuner 2 the best one?
 

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We still have five months on the 4yr 50k miles power train warranty n our 2016 EX-L. Will the muzzler affect warranty coverage or warranty work if needed? Is the VCM tuner 2 the best one?
Not at all. I would take it off before taking it in for any warranty work...just in case the service dept is clueless. Just make sure you take it off of and put it on a cold engine or you'll have warning lights.

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Please keep in mind that using a Muzzling device is just a suggestion. Actual known problems are limited to specific years and models. This is a 2011-2017 forum section. VCM issues should be addressed based on those model years here.
In the 2011-2013 vans, experimental low friction piston rings were used, causing oil to leak past them and foul the spark plugs. Even though the rings were supposed to be different starting in 2014, there have been folks coming here reporting codes related to fouled plugs. By the way, the long time leaking of engine oil into the shut down cylinders can also ruin a catalytic converter. Unless you live in a CARB* state, those are not warrantied or included in the warranty extension.

For reference, 2005-2007 Odys only had VCM in the EX-L & Touring models. 2008-2010 had a slightly different VCM system. Some of those late model years also had piston ring issues, all are out of the extended warranty now because of time. Those earlier models had issues with the active motor mounts designed to deal with the vibration VCM introduced. There are VCM sticky threads in the 2005-2010 forum section.

If one goes to a site that sells a Muzzler device, those sites will lay it on a little thick. I do not see that being done here.
It is often SUGGESTED, mostly so a new owner can decide for themselves.

*if you live in California, or another state that has adopted their standards, emissions related items are warrantied to 10years/150k. Other states follow federal rules, 8years/80k
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Will hold on with VCM muzzler until I drive the car as is for a bit to see how it feels, then goes from there...

So far no complain with the new used 15 Touring. Parking at garage is abit more difficult as our double-garage has separate door, and the Odyssey just barely fit the width with side-mirrors.
Ride feels quite comfortable. Road noise is quite quiet for city-driving. Highway-driving seems to differ mostly due to the road, drove on a few different highways and some were really quiet and 1-2 were noticeable more noisey. See if new tires help.

Also looks like the previous owner pretty much was at close to100% city driving since s/he never reset "Trip A" and it showed 18.9 L/100km. My mostly high-way trips are around 9-10.5 L/100km. Not too bad.
 

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Any update/response to this request? I'm interested as well.

Jerry
No response old CroMath is in hiding . I myself would not install the VCM muzzler on my 250K plus 06 Ody, my spark plugs are good although the one on the VCM side was more fouled the middle one 2 I believe yet that was well over 140 plus K's , and my motor mounts are good , to me it is not worth it . But like I say "To each his own"
 

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No response old CroMath is in hiding . I myself would not install the VCM muzzler on my 250K plus 06 Ody, my spark plugs are good although the one on the VCM side was more fouled the middle one 2 I believe yet that was well over 140 plus K's , and my motor mounts are good , to me it is not worth it . But like I say "To each his own"
CroMath has you blocked, so he does not see your posts.
This is the 2011-2017 section, your experience with a 2006 should be discussed in the 2005-2010 section. It is not germane here.
For someone who likes to say "To each his own" you sure are vocal about this issue. (the gender neutral term is "their own" by the way)
 

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CroMath has you blocked, so he does not see your posts.
This is the 2011-2017 section, your experience with a 2006 should be discussed in the 2005-2010 section. It is not germane here.
For someone who likes to say "To each his own" you sure are vocal about this issue. (the gender neutral term is "their own" by the way)
Yeah honestly not sure what's with all the bickering. CroMath suggested the muzzler, which is certainly an important info for someone new here (me). I'm not getting it (yet), as I'm just starting to read over the details & threads, and want to feel how the new-to-me car is in case there is issue developed already, and need to check which muzzler is better even if I'm to get one. But clearly there are quite many reports of people here having VCM, motor-mounts issues. So the problem certainly looks real, although unknown what percent of owners are affected.
 

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Do you have any facts , or hard data to back that up ? I would like to see the actual facts on this VCM disable device. Do the sellers of the device have comparative, or long term analysis on VCM enabled and VCM disabled vehicles ? These are very reasonable questions that any Odyssey EX-L owner would want answered and should not be ridiculed for asking, Respectfully Sir could you please answer them .
Any update/response to this request? I'm interested as well.

Jerry
No response old CroMath is in hiding . I myself would not install the VCM muzzler on my 250K plus 06 Ody, my spark plugs are good although the one on the VCM side was more fouled the middle one 2 I believe yet that was well over 140 plus K's , and my motor mounts are good , to me it is not worth it . But like I say "To each his own"
Sigh... I'm probably going to regret this...

@silverghost06 - we're in agreement about a few things. I wouldn't install a muzzler on a van with over 250,000 miles either. Personally, I wouldn't install a licence plate on a van with over 250,000 miles on it, but that's neither here nor there. "To each his own", right? In your specific case, you're absolutely right - why bother with a muzzler at this point? You've made it just fine thus far; let 'er ride. Your Ody has served you well and hopefully continues to for as long as you need it. Muzzling it at this point would be a total waste of time and money.

For both @silverghost06 and @jbudd - what sort of facts or evidence would satisfy you? Let's lay out some cold hard facts:

1. The problems are real. Here is copy of the settlement notice from the US District Court for Northern California:


I hope I don't need to explain that these things don't just get sprayed around willy-nilly by federal judges. I'll save you a tiny bit of reading (as in the first three lines of the very first page) - it specifically refers to Honda V6 engines equipped with VCM2 - nearly 1.6 million of them. No vehicle older than the 2008 model year is affected by this system or covered by the lawsuit and subsequent settlement. If only 1% of the vehicles covered actually had the ring replacement done at a price tag of about $2500 each, that would cost Honda around 40 million dollars. This is seriously big money that no one puts up unless they have to. And this scenario still allows for 99% of the vehicles to be "just fine". This isn't something made up by internet crackpots that have it in for Honda for one reason or another, conspiracy theorists or various other Chicken Little types. Honda's checkbook and a US Federal Court say this is no fairy tale.

So @silverghost06 - your own experience with VCM in your 2006 Odyssey is completely irrelevant to the conversations in this thread. I'm glad your van's been so good to you, but this really is not even a little bit about you. Sit down.

Now for everyone else, let's continue...

2. The proof that VCM disable devices work and are safe over the long term is already inside every single VCM2 engine, muzzled or not. The unique characteristic of VCM2 is that it allows the engine to run on 3, 4 or 6 cylinders. VCM1 and the most modern VCM3 are not like that - they are 3 or 6-cylinder mode only.

3-cyl mode4-cyl mode6-cyl mode
Cylinder 1NYY
Cylinder 2NYY
Cylinder 3NNY
Cylinder 4YNY
Cylinder 5YYY
Cylinder 6YYY

The cylinders most prone to fouling and piston ring problems happen to be the same ones that are being turned on and off by VCM; that is, cylinders 1, 2, 3, and 4. Only cylinders 5 and 6 fire in all three operating modes of VCM2, and it is consistently cylinders 5 and 6 that do not have fouling and misfire problems. It is so common for cylinders 1-4 to have these problems that they are the only ones which get repaired under the terms of the extended warranty Honda offered following that class-action lawsuit. Honda does not pay for new rings in cylinders 5 and 6 under the terms of the extended warranty. Cylinders 5 & 6 never get shut off and they never have problems. Coincidence? You decide for yourself, but Honda themselves obviously don't think it is. I'll go with them.

Honda eventually blamed the oil blow-by on low friction piston rings that were used up until 2013. They did not bother to explain why leaving those "faulty" piston rings in cylinders 5 and 6 was perfectly fine while the other 4 cylinders got "improved" piston rings that entered regular production for the 2014 model year. I think it's because they weren't the actual problem (or at least they weren't at the core of the problem), but I'll concede that's just me.

The wear on the active engine mounts is fairly straightforward - it's very difficult to get a V6 engine to run equally smoothly using 3 of 6, 4 of 6, or 6 of 6 cylinders, so Honda uses electrically controlled active engine mounts to help cancel the vibrations that naturally occur in 3 and 4 cylinder modes. Those things work very hard whenever VCM is active and I think they do an admirable job in most cases. But they simply wear out after a while; they are not a lifetime part. They are also a very expensive part that seem to nicely outlive the warranty so that owners are stuck with paying the hefty repair bill out-of-pocket. All other V6 engines (from ANY manufacturer) that don't have cylinder deactivation naturally run very smoothly all on their own without any fancy engine mounts. So if you don't disable cylinders you don't need active engine mounts, which is great for 2008 - 2010 Odyssey owners who have bolt-up replacements available because those vans could be had with either non-VCM or VCM engines from the factory. For us gen 4 owners who don't have the option to choose solid mounts, we at least don't worry about replacing something that will never wear out because the thing that wears it out never happens.

So there is no mechanical harm done by disabling VCM - as a matter of fact, you simplify the engine's job by disabling VCM. So now let's move on to the scarier part...

3. You're not screwing with the engine computer by disabling VCM. Relatively little of the critical engine functions depend on the temperature of the coolant. Probably the most important function controlled by the coolant temperature is the radiator fans and for that there is a secondary engine coolant temperature sensor - ECT2. The fans' operation is also influenced by other factors, like whether or not the AC compressor is running. The remainder of the cooling system like the radiator and thermostat are completely mechanical and receive no input from the PCM - they do their thing the same whether VCM is active or not.

The normal warmed up temperature range for a fourth generation Honda Odyssey engine is around 170°F - that is the temperature at which the thermostat opens on my 2015. VCM is allowed to function by the PCM at a temperature of 167°F. An S-VCM controller or VCMTuner II hold the ECT1 sensor output at 161-163°F. The engine warms up fully. A couple of degrees up or down only matters to the VCM system.

The air/fuel ratio is determined by the O2 sensors as soon as the PCM goes into closed loop, a few moments after engine start. The amount of time the engine runs rich to get itself started is basically unchanged because the PCM does not rely on coolant temperature alone to determine whether it's warmed up enough to go into closed loop. I know this is true because I have a Scangauge II connected to the OBD II port in my van and I can monitor parameters like open/closed loop and short-term and long-term fuel trims. The engine does not run rich with a muzzler installed. I can monitor the engine's health by watching parameters like engine timing, exhaust gas temperatures, catalyst temperatures, O2 sensor outputs and engine loading. None of these give any kind of abnormal or out-of-spec reading on my muzzled engine, and that's only logical because...

4. Running in full-on 6-cylinder mode is not unnatural to the engine. It is legitimately one of the three modes possible under VCM2. Disabling VCM does not force the engine to do anything it wasn't designed for. We're not hot rodding the thing. It's totally OK for a V6 engine to use all 6 cylinders. Really.


I'm sick and tired of having to explain stuff like this umpteen times around here, so now I'd like to turn the tables here a little bit. I've laid out a few things here in support of my general contention that disabling VCM is safe and appropriate if you choose to do it and sometimes even advisable. Can the skeptics back up their position? Let me hear about the reasons why you believe VCM should not be disabled. Is there anything there other than blind faith? "That's how Honda made it so that's how it should be." Show me the facts that prove I'm out of line (if you can).
 

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If Honda designed it to work with the VCM, it must be good; right? ;)

It's the ole "Internet Guy says..." syndrome, people read this on the Interwebs and then relay what they've read to their local mechanic/dealer and they say "...and you believe Internet Guy over me, ha!"...

Heck, I couldn't even get my one local dealership to ADMIT that certain TSB's existed for our '16 EXL, let alone considering performing them. They know best after all.

Yeah, well a few lawsuits and recalls later I think history has shown this not to be the case. I for one run all 6 cylinders all the time via our S-VCM Custom thanks with no issues and honestly no degradation of fuel mileage that I've been able to ascertain... For those that don't, I wish them the best of luck but have little doubt expensive and sometimes painful repairs are in their future. Our neighbor has a '14 that is only Honda maintained, and riding in that thing is like riding a creaky, herky-jerky bucking bronco but when I try to guide and assist well...
 

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If Honda designed it to work with the VCM, it must be good; right? ;)

It's the ole "Internet Guy says..." syndrome, people read this on the Interwebs and then relay what they've read to their local mechanic/dealer and they say "...and you believe Internet Guy over me, ha!"...
I hear ya... I don't expect people to automatically believe me because when I started learning about all this I didn't believe it either. Honestly, it's kinda unbelievable on the face of it. I also know it's hard to look someone you know and trust in the eye and tell them that what you saw on an internet forum sounds pretty bad and at the same time pretty possible. I really just hope people read what I write and think to themselves, "Could this guy really be right? What if he is?" and then figure it out to their own satisfaction.

I have no skin in the game so how anyone decides to proceed with their own vehicle truly has no impact on my life. I don't build muzzlers, I don't sell muzzlers and I've never met any of the people who do. But I do feel bad to read the stories of when the troubles start and folks are caught unaware. Up to recently, most of the stories have had relatively happy endings because the extended warranty coverage was in place. But now these vulnerable vans are starting to depreciate a bit more and are becoming accessible to people or families who maybe aren't quite so affluent. At the same time these vans are aging out of the extended warranty coverage that could really save their new owners' butts financially. Realistically, the extended warranty is only going to in place for two more years - by the end of 2021 most of the 2013 models will age out and that will be it. No more help from Honda. The 2014-2017 models never had any extra coverage and probably never will. Honda's goodwill to help fix them isn't likely to last forever either.

I'd like to help people avoid the shock and disappointment and stress and financial pain of problems that can be avoided without much effort - I feel like that's the whole point of participating in something like Odyclub. If I don't do anything other than pique their curiosity and get them reading either here or elsewhere, I'm good with that.
 

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Thank you Cro for sharing on this thread.i truly hope you don’t regret it. The strange thing is how no one sees lower fuel economy with it muzzled when that is supposedly the only reason Honda forces it on us.
 

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CroMath, is it possible to sticky a single post in a thread? Epic takedown!

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Thanks. Everyone has a limit of how much nitwittery they can handle graciously, and I guess I reached mine.

I don't think we ordinary forum members can sticky anything - I think only mods can do that. We do have the "Bookmark" function available to us though. I might bookmark that post for myself so I don't have to spend so much time typing it all again the next time that question comes up. :p
 

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Thank you Cro for sharing on this thread.i truly hope you don’t regret it. The strange thing is how no one sees lower fuel economy with it muzzled when that is supposedly the only reason Honda forces it on us.
Thanks @Greginfla . I don't regret sharing what I've learned - I'd like it if others don't have to spend as much time and effort as I did to wrap their heads around what's going on in these engines.

I think Honda uses VCM only to get the right kind of numbers on the EPA test circuit. Us owners getting any benefit from the system (if that happens) is just icing on the cake for Honda. They got everything they ever needed from VCM before our vans rolled off the assembly line and so I don't think Honda really cares if individual owners disable VCM for themselves. It actually works in everyone's favour if we do muzzle VCM. Owners get better driving vehicles and Honda gets fewer warranty claims to pay for.

Some people do see a bit lower fuel economy but it seems like most people don't. I think it has a lot to do with the way and the places you normally drive.
 
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Thanks. Everyone has a limit of how much nitwittery they can handle graciously, and I guess I reached mine.

I don't think we ordinary forum members can sticky anything - I think only mods can do that. We do have the "Bookmark" function available to us though. I might bookmark that post for myself so I don't have to spend so much time typing it all again the next time that question comes up. :p
Ha, there was a bit of sarcasm in my post. Having served as a mod on a big forum before, I wanted to do that many times. Really appreciate your work here!

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