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I love it, he doesn't even have the same model vehicle (with the issues we're discussing) and he's using that as his defense.Go read the today posted P0303 error thread here , these pop up here all the time on this 2011-2017 generation forum FOR A REASON!
I read that P0303 thread (BTW the link above leads to a youtube vid instead of the thread) and it certainly appears to be VCM related. Or perhaps Silverghost has a better explanation, given his experience with the Ody :unsure:
 

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I read that P0303 thread (BTW the link above leads to a youtube vid instead of the thread) and it certainly appears to be VCM related. Or perhaps Silverghost has a better explanation, given his experience with the Ody :unsure:
He will simply drop in out of nowhere and demand that I explain it. And then not believe a single word I say. :p
 

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In his defense (dare I?) Most devices sold to attach to an engine are pure snake oil.
That is true and definitely worth remembering in all of this. I always try to emphasize how I understand how unbelievable VCM problems seem at first glance. A key difference here is that disabling VCM is a response to a real problem acknowledged by the manufacturer, who is in a uniquely odd position of not being able to address it head-on the way us consumers would like and expect. Also, the technicalities of how VCM works and how to defeat it are out in the open for anyone to pick apart and as far as I can tell, no one can find a flaw in the logic.

The only true point of contention is the probability of running into trouble, and I admit that I do not take a very nuanced perspective on that because the true probability is not public knowledge. So I tend to be black and white about it - either the probability is zero or it is not zero. I'd be more open to acknowledging the grey area in between if there were any benefit to us end users of doing that.

Since it's known that the probability of VCM trouble in my gen 4 Odyssey is not zero, I'll do what I can to bring it as close to zero as possible. Because at the end of the day, if something goes wrong with my van, I'm on the hook. Every day that passes is another day less of Honda being helpful with the repair bill in the future.
 

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Ahh the VCM muzzler salesmen came out in force to defend Crometh ! Still no explanation to my basic questions just the primal scream of the VCM sdale people . I remember when I first posted on my 06 Ody and I asked about my tail light bulbs and the VCM sales team claimed I needed VCM because the pounding of the VCM knocked out my tail lights. Crometh initially attacked me for no reason and now claims I initiated this. Buyer beware on those who buy these VCM muzzlers made by some unlicenced guys making these in their garages. Crometh and his support group need to stop polluting the forums with their garage made VCM devices . It is a forum not a VCM muzzler sales site.
 

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That is true and definitely worth remembering in all of this. I always try to emphasize how I understand how unbelievable VCM problems seem at first glance. A key difference here is that disabling VCM is a response to a real problem acknowledged by the manufacturer, who is in a uniquely odd position of not being able to address it head-on the way us consumers would like and expect. Also, the technicalities of how VCM works and how to defeat it are out in the open for anyone to pick apart and as far as I can tell, no one can find a flaw in the logic.

The only true point of contention is the probability of running into trouble, and I admit that I do not take a very nuanced perspective on that because the true probability is not public knowledge. So I tend to be black and white about it - either the probability is zero or it is not zero. I'd be more open to acknowledging the grey area in between if there were any benefit to us end users of doing that.

Since it's known that the probability of VCM trouble in my gen 4 Odyssey is not zero, I'll do what I can to bring it as close to zero as possible. Because at the end of the day, if something goes wrong with my van, I'm on the hook. Every day that passes is another day less of Honda being helpful with the repair bill in the future.
Crometh what is your engineering background what degrees and licences do you possess to claim such scientific expertise ? Where is the research, the documentation once again on VCM vs VCM muzzler failure rates ? Did you and the VCM salesmen conduct exhaustive testing on these devices on any VCM equipped vehicles for 100K ? At least with Honda you have legal remedies , with you guys there are none ! As for you garage salesman what is your guarentee if these VCM devices fail, short out , cause an engine fire or have your engine computer fry ? Crometh takes my legitimate questions as him being insulted , and never states any actual facts on my questions . Crometh as Sgt Joe Friday states on Dragnet "Just the Facts Maam"
 

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@silverghost06 you seem to be implying that everyone who commented above is a muzzler salesman. I can assure you that i have no dogs in this proverbial race. Nor does CroMath. But I think he nailed it on the head in his recent post "He will simply drop in out of nowhere and demand that I explain it. And then not believe a single word I say. "

Also, in your post above you pose numerous questions regarding the legitimacy of the muzzler and CroMath's expertise. A better question is what your expertise is - especially with the 4th gen Odyssey. Your 3rd gen is markedly different from the 4th gen in many ways, including the VCM system. Just because your van works does not mean everyone else's does. For example, when I muzzled my '12 at 40k, I had not yet experienced the problems others did. My neighbor was not so lucky with her '11 - 53k and had ring failure and associated problems! Regardless, given that you have all the answers, how do you explain the abnormally high ring failure rate on 4th gen Odys, if not for the "new to gen 4" VCM system? Of course, the "new to gen 4" rings could explain the issue, but then why do the '14+ Odys also experience this failure with their newer rings?
 

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My goodness you're tedious! 🙄 Let's see if we can somehow pull a silk purse out of this sow's ear of an exchange.

Crometh what is your engineering background what degrees and licences do you possess to claim such scientific expertise ?
My background and credentials are irrelevant. I have nothing to prove to you. You, on the other hand, have much to prove to the rest of us here. We have yet to see you point out a single error in anything I've written. It is not incumbent on me to continually prove myself correct. I have already asserted that with supporting explanations that make sense according to all of the available observable evidence. You have done nothing of the kind. A never-ending stream of "Yeah but..." and name calling doesn't prove anything I've said wrong.

Where is the research, the documentation once again on VCM vs VCM muzzler failure rates ?
I'm glad you mentioned that. You're supposed to be looking those numbers up - how's that coming? Have you found them yet? If not, why are you back here? 🤷‍♂️ Pitter patter, let's get at 'er son!

Did you and the VCM salesmen conduct exhaustive testing on these devices on any VCM equipped vehicles for 100K ?
As a matter of fact yes, there are likely more than a few people who have had muzzlers on their Odysseys, Accords, Pilots, Ridgelines, MDXs, TLs, ... day in and day out for over a hundred thousand miles. I'm well on my way to that myself in my own vehicle. As I stated before and you have yet to show otherwise, no one is having problems because of it.

At least with Honda you have legal remedies , with you guys there are none !
Legal remedies with Honda?! Where?! Show them to me. Once the last 2013s age out of the settlement warranty in about two years, the line item for those repairs in Honda's annual budget will disappear and Honda will tell us all to go p!ss up a rope. They're not going to pay forever and it looks very unlikely that they could be successfully sued a second time. Those vans won't magically go away with the turn of a calendar's page, I know that much. And neither will the potential for problems. But the coverage will and the little guy is going to be the one left holding the bag - you know, the young family on a single income who has a third or fourth child coming and has barely scraped together the purchase price for a 8-10 year old Odyssey. They can pay for a ring job, right?

No aftermarket manufacturer guarantees anything other than their own product. For example, if you were to buy something as straightforward as a K&N air filter and it wound up coating your MAF sensor with oil (which can happen) and you got a Check Engine light because of that, K&N is not going to reimburse you for that repair. The user assumes the risk of using the product. This is hardly groundbreaking or unique. We literally can only ever SUGGEST that people consider using a VCM disable device. I have no power or ability to compel anyone to do it - the only vehicle I answer for is my own, just like everyone else does for theirs. Your van, your choice. Whoever doesn't want one doesn't have to have one. But at least make the choice from an informed (rather than blissfully unaware) position.

* Edit * As it turns out, @silverghost06 , we've had this conversation before. About six months ago. In particular, check out posts 9 through 13 - you made what seems to be an informed choice and I responded by agreeing that you made the right one. Why all the static now?



As for you garage salesman what is your guarentee if these VCM devices fail, short out , cause an engine fire or have your engine computer fry ?
Those aren't legitimate questions - they're wild-ass eruptions from an imagination fueled exclusively by ignorance. Learn how computer wiring, circuit boards, and thermistors work. Preferably from someone other than me.

Crometh takes my legitimate questions as him being insulted , and never states any actual facts on my questions . Crometh as Sgt Joe Friday states on Dragnet "Just the Facts Maam"
There's an old proverb that says, "All the wisest men in all the world cannot hope to answer all the questions a single fool can ask." I'm through dealing with you. Until you come up with something that even begins to prove me wrong or exaggerating, GET LOST!
 

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My goodness you're tedious! 🙄 Let's see if we can somehow pull a silk purse out of this sow's ear of an exchange.


My background and credentials are irrelevant. I have nothing to prove to you. You, on the other hand, have much to prove to the rest of us here. We have yet to see you point out a single error in anything I've written. It is not incumbent on me to continually prove myself correct. I have already asserted that with supporting explanations that make sense according to all of the available observable evidence. You have done nothing of the kind. A never-ending stream of "Yeah but..." and name calling doesn't prove anything I've said wrong.


I'm glad you mentioned that. You're supposed to be looking those numbers up - how's that coming? Have you found them yet? If not, why are you back here? 🤷‍♂️ Pitter patter, let's get at 'er son!


As a matter of fact yes, there are likely more than a few people who have had muzzlers on their Odysseys, Accords, Pilots, Ridgelines, MDXs, TLs, ... day in and day out for over a hundred thousand miles. I'm well on my way to that myself in my own vehicle. As I stated before and you have yet to show otherwise, no one is having problems because of it.


Legal remedies with Honda?! Where?! Show them to me. Once the last 2013s age out of the settlement warranty in about two years, the line item for those repairs in Honda's annual budget will disappear and Honda will tell us all to go p!ss up a rope. They're not going to pay forever and it looks very unlikely that they could be successfully sued a second time. Those vans won't magically go away with the turn of a calendar's page, I know that much. And neither will the potential for problems. But the coverage will and the little guy is going to be the one left holding the bag - you know, the young family on a single income who has a third or fourth child coming and has barely scraped together the purchase price for a 8-10 year old Odyssey. They can pay for a ring job, right?

No aftermarket manufacturer guarantees anything other than their own product. For example, if you were to buy something as straightforward as a K&N air filter and it wound up coating your MAF sensor with oil (which can happen) and you got a Check Engine light because of that, K&N is not going to reimburse you for that repair. The user assumes the risk of using the product. This is hardly groundbreaking or unique. We literally can only ever SUGGEST that people consider using a VCM disable device. I have no power or ability to compel anyone to do it - the only vehicle I answer for is my own, just like everyone else does for theirs. Your van, your choice. Whoever doesn't want one doesn't have to have one. But at least make the choice from an informed (rather than blissfully unaware) position.

* Edit * As it turns out, @silverghost06 , we've had this conversation before. About six months ago. In particular, check out posts 9 through 13 - you made what seems to be an informed choice and I responded by agreeing that you made the right one. Why all the static now?




Those aren't legitimate questions - they're wild-ass eruptions from an imagination fueled exclusively by ignorance. Learn how computer wiring, circuit boards, and thermistors work. Preferably from someone other than me.



There's an old proverb that says, "All the wisest men in all the world cannot hope to answer all the questions a single fool can ask." I'm through dealing with you. Until you come up with something that even begins to prove me wrong or exaggerating, GET LOST!
Lay off the Meth CroMeth ! I thought you had blocked me ! When do I have or anyone have to prove you wrong , you are the VCM Muzzler snake oil salesman prove your product right . Show research documentation and manufacturer testing and the results. And who is the LICENSED manufacturers of these VCM Muzzlers ? ? ?
 

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Lay off the Meth CroMeth ! I thought you had blocked me ! When do I have or anyone have to prove you wrong , you are the VCM Muzzler snake oil salesman prove your product right . Show research documentation and manufacturer testing and the results. And who is the LICENSED manufacturers of these VCM Muzzlers ? ? ?
I see that you hail from "Dixie", so I'm going to interpret that as a sign I may need to type slower for you. You're just not getting it. This isn't fake news and the Deep State is not trying to put one over on certain owners of Honda V6s (it's actually the Ukrainian government who is behind all this VCM business. We thought it was the Russians at first, but they said it wasn't them so you know... that's obviously true). :ROFLMAO: :p :ROFLMAO: :p :ROFLMAO:

I really am through with you and this discussion. But as one last parting gift, I thought you might like to try to read the patent granted to the maker of the VCMTuner and VCMTuner II. This is important because it is actually from a real person who really does make and sell these devices and had to pass a technical review at the US Patent Office. For the record (again): I don't sell or manufacture VCM disable devices, I never have, and I never will. I am not the patent holder. I do, however, understand the technology and principles underpinning it.

It explains what these devices do and why they're useful, but fair warning: it does use big words and long sentences and there are only a couple of pictures so take your time. Start in on it first thing in the morning when your mind is fresh; have a good breakfast, make yourself a nice cup of coffee, use it to wash down your dose of lithium salts and settle into a comfy chair. Maybe you'll learn something this way (but I'm not optimistic; you've already shown that facts don't matter). Here is the link:


I'd like to point out that this took me about 15 seconds to find online. I don't believe you're incapable of such in-depth Googling, so I am forced to conclude you are simply too lazy to do even the most basic research for yourself, uninterested in contributing anything constructive to the knowledge base, and just want someone to yell at and insult. Go find someone else for that. Find a wife. Buy a goldfish. Whatever.
 

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@silverghost06, we got multiple reports of you twisting members names and what not. Please be civil. We normally do not delete much and this is a minivan forum not a Civic one. If you want to behave like you're in a civic forum, by all means go there.

One more snide reply and I will delete all your junk posts and give you a vacation for a few weeks. And yes, this is being posted publically (first time ever) as we got the most number of reports in a single day ever.
 

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@silverghost06, we got multiple reports of you twisting members names and what not. Please be civil. We normally do not delete much and this is a minivan forum not a Civic one. If you want to behave like you're in a civic forum, by all means go there.

One more snide reply and I will delete all your junk posts and give you a vacation for a few weeks. And yes, this is being posted publically (first time ever) as we got the most number of reports in a single day ever.
But mr. Crometh can insult and belittle me ? Come on re read the entire sequence and you will see mr Crometh initiated all the snide, snitty comments. I for the record have not been insulted by mr Cromeths insulting comments . I guess there is only one side on this forum. Listen I could care less about the VCM Muzzler concession on this forum , but it seems every poster no matter what the issue gets the obligatory Disable your VCM and purchase a VCM Muzzler message. Do what you must this Forum was once great until the VCM Muzzler Sellers spammed each post.
 

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I see that you hail from "Dixie", so I'm going to interpret that as a sign I may need to type slower for you. You're just not getting it. This isn't fake news and the Deep State is not trying to put one over on certain owners of Honda V6s (it's actually the Ukrainian government who is behind all this VCM business. We thought it was the Russians at first, but they said it wasn't them so you know... that's obviously true). :ROFLMAO: :p :ROFLMAO: :p :ROFLMAO:

I really am through with you and this discussion. But as one last parting gift, I thought you might like to try to read the patent granted to the maker of the VCMTuner and VCMTuner II. This is important because it is actually from a real person who really does make and sell these devices and had to pass a technical review at the US Patent Office. For the record (again): I don't sell or manufacture VCM disable devices, I never have, and I never will. I am not the patent holder. I do, however, understand the technology and principles underpinning it.

It explains what these devices do and why they're useful, but fair warning: it does use big words and long sentences and there are only a couple of pictures so take your time. Start in on it first thing in the morning when your mind is fresh; have a good breakfast, make yourself a nice cup of coffee, use it to wash down your dose of lithium salts and settle into a comfy chair. Maybe you'll learn something this way (but I'm not optimistic; you've already shown that facts don't matter). Here is the link:


I'd like to point out that this took me about 15 seconds to find online. I don't believe you're incapable of such in-depth Googling, so I am forced to conclude you are simply too lazy to do even the most basic research for yourself, uninterested in contributing anything constructive to the knowledge base, and just want someone to yell at and insult. Go find someone else for that. Find a wife. Buy a goldfish. Whatever.
Forum regulator mr Crometh has once again used regional racist comments and political cheap shots at me which has no place on this forum, please ban him for a 30 day cool off period, and make him attend a behavioral modification program for his ill advised delusions of granduer , it is obvious he is uppity and arrogant , and not intelligent and debate savvy. If we are going to fairly administer this forum we must first deal with the snitty instigator Crometh.......Please Muzzle his (V)ery(C)austic(M)outh.
 

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But mr. Crometh can insult and belittle me ? Come on re read the entire sequence and you will see mr Crometh initiated all the snide, snitty comments. I for the record have not been insulted by mr Cromeths insulting comments . I guess there is only one side on this forum. Listen I could care less about the VCM Muzzler concession on this forum , but it seems every poster no matter what the issue gets the obligatory Disable your VCM and purchase a VCM Muzzler message. Do what you must this Forum was once great until the VCM Muzzler Sellers spammed each post.
Forum regulator mr Crometh has once again used regional racist comments and political cheap shots at me which has no place on this forum, please ban him for a 30 day cool off period, and make him attend a behavioral modification program for his ill advised delusions of granduer , it is obvious he is uppity and arrogant , and not intelligent and debate savvy. If we are going to fairly administer this forum we must first deal with the snitty instigator Crometh.......Please Muzzle his (V)ery(C)austic(M)outh.
154085
 

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Forum regulator mr Crometh has once again used regional racist comments and political cheap shots at me which has no place on this forum, please ban him for a 30 day cool off period, and make him attend a behavioral modification program for his ill advised delusions of granduer , it is obvious he is uppity and arrogant , and not intelligent and debate savvy. If we are going to fairly administer this forum we must first deal with the snitty instigator Crometh.......Please Muzzle his (V)ery(C)austic(M)outh.
Appropriate action has been taken. Thank you for your advice.
 

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@silverghost06 you seem to be implying that everyone who commented above is a muzzler salesman. I can assure you that i have no dogs in this proverbial race. Nor does CroMath. But I think he nailed it on the head in his recent post "He will simply drop in out of nowhere and demand that I explain it. And then not believe a single word I say. "

Also, in your post above you pose numerous questions regarding the legitimacy of the muzzler and CroMath's expertise. A better question is what your expertise is - especially with the 4th gen Odyssey. Your 3rd gen is markedly different from the 4th gen in many ways, including the VCM system. Just because your van works does not mean everyone else's does. For example, when I muzzled my '12 at 40k, I had not yet experienced the problems others did. My neighbor was not so lucky with her '11 - 53k and had ring failure and associated problems! Regardless, given that you have all the answers, how do you explain the abnormally high ring failure rate on 4th gen Odys, if not for the "new to gen 4" VCM system? Of course, the "new to gen 4" rings could explain the issue, but then why do the '14+ Odys also experience this failure with their newer rings?
My '12 EX-L didn't develop any issues until 220k miles. I unhooked the secondary oil pressure sensor to keep VCM off at 220k miles. I am now at 255k miles and the misfire / cylinder deactivation / excessive vibration has not returned.. I travel about 1800 miles a week for work. From personal experience with other high mileage vehicles I wouldn't put Mobil 1 in anything.
 
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