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A FEW QUESTIONS BEFORE I ORDER:

Wow guys....I must say I've missed all this commotion and now I'm excited. I was an original skeptic on the VCM delete stuff when I knew I'd have to live with CELs and black tape and bi-weekly scanning to make sure I don't have any "real" problems that are being masked by my black-taped CELs!

Just finally read through this WHOLE thread and I am quite excited to try this solution!

But before I do, a couple questions:

1) people are seeing about 1 mpg reduction is that right? So on 6000 miles at 24 vs 23 that is like 10 extra gallons or 30 bucks per year of extra cost. Seems reasonable to have the extra power plus hopefully avoid an expensive engine mounts replacement or other VCM problems

2) Should I choose the 82 and 100 ohms package or the 82 and 120? I live in Chicago. I've seen that the 120 sometimes is causing people to get CELs for low coolant temp where I guess the car is questioning whether the sensor is gone bad. The CEL can reset itself. BUT, to avoid this shouldn't I get the 100 ohm for summer use? (or just use the 82 all year round?) I guess the question is, isn't it better to get the OCCASIONAL ACTIVATION OF VCM on a really hot day for a few days in the summer or in stop and go, yet avoid throwing low temp CELs and possible other negative effects of effectively "over-doing" the temperature reporting suppression? I mean, I've been living with VCM usage for the past 5 years. I know that I now want to kill VCM, but it can't be the worst thing in the world if it still cycles a few times on special hot days right? Maybe that is even a vote to just leave the Blue in all the time in Chicago....to "exercise" the VCM periodically during the hottest days in the summer. Obviously if the VCM is activating 75% of the time between May and September if I were in Phoenix, then its a different story

3) There may be another thread for it, but what is the best current recommendation for a Bluetooth OBD scanner that I can plug into the Odyssey and use with an Android phone? Would like best quality/performance/reliability/value and would prefer to spend $10 on Ebay or Amazon rather than $90 for one that is 10% "better" if that is the case.

Many thanks
 

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Thanks for the replies. I will PM verbatim shortly. For those that are running the 120 and getting occasional low coolant temp lights, is this a basically harmless CEL that resolves itself? Have we figured out whether ECT1 actually controls anything else engine wise?
 

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I installed the VCMuzzler today.
Took about 1 min, no need to remove the engine cover. I just used my left hand to snap off the cable that goes into the temperature sensor, connect the Muzzler, done.

After Muzzler installed, I did notice the temperature gauge on dash does go a little lower than normal.
(I think it is just a bit below mid point)

No more ECO, no more hesitations.

I hope this will help because I am always in rush hour going to work and coming back home.

The constant on and off of the ECO mode will wear out my engine mounts and foul my spark plugs.
My ody temp gauge pointer never was at the mid point since new, it was always slightly below. After the Muzzler the temp gauge pointer stayed about the same place.

My temp has always been a bit below the midpoint, too. Will be interesting to see whether the needle moves much once I get my VCMuzzler in the mail soon
 

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So I bought a bluetooth ELM reader on Ebay for 5 bucks and it works well.

Purpose of my post here is to report the ECT readings I got last night. Note that this is STOCK, as I haven't yet received my VCMuzzler from the north pole yet (it is on the Canada Post sleigh though) :)

Note I did not drive the van....was just idling in the driveway as I played around with the ELM reader and my Android phone. Ambient temps around 65 F.

ECT worked its way up to 208-210 F. Then, after awhile the large engine fan started cycling and then the temp would get down to about 160s on the lower side and back up to 170, 180, maybe 190 before the fan would cycle again. At that point, the temps never were allowed to get back above 200 it seemed. Not sure why it was initially allowed to get to 210? Is there a "warm up phase" where the main engine fan doesn't kick in?

THE VERY INTERESTING THING (TO ME) was that during all of these fluctuations between 160 and up to 210, THE DASHBOARD NEEDLE DID NOT MOVE. AT ALL! And I was literally pushing my head on the steering wheel and staring at it intently to see if I could detect any movement. None detected. So I think someone else posted that the gauge is not linear in a thread about a car overheating. It seems as if my gauge stops moving up at about the 45% position (it is a bit below half way) and again, it doesn' seem to measure any difference between 160 and 210 F. Therefore it will be really interesting to see what the "Muzzled" ECT readings are.

Also, didn't I read somewhere that the ECT needs to be below 160 for the VCM to stay off? If the 82 resistor only subtracts 15 degrees, I wonder if that will be enough for me since my ECT was bouncing between 160 and 190 while the car was at rest. Again, I haven't tracked the data while driving, so maybe the driving airflow will materially cut the ECT naturally.

Is the above consistent with others' findings?
 

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Your findings aren't typical. It sounds like you may have a sticky thermostat as your temps should not be fluctuating that much in my opinion. As comparison on my Pilot, the temperature typically hovers right around 170-174 without the VCMuzzler installed. No initial spike like yours at all. Your range of 160-190 on just normal cycling seems way high. With that high of a swing, you'll likely be better off using the 120 ohm resistor supplied with the unit, but always start with the 82 first. VCM threshold is around 167 degrees. Bottom line is you won't know until you try it but you may have an issue where the 82 ohm isn't enough to keep it off all the time because of your big swings, but the 120 might cause a CEL because your low temp of 160 minus the additional from the VCMuzzler.

As far as your statement about the temp gauge being non-linear, that's hard to know for sure. What is for sure is the sensor itself is a logarithmic resistance to temp relationship meaning the higher the temperature, the less amount of resistance change that happens per degree change. The ECU knows this and correctly interprets the correct temperature. Now whether the gauge is linear to the ECU interpreted temperature or not, I can't tell you. I would have thought you would see a difference between 160 and 210.

The variances in vehicle components, specifically thermostats seems to be the main reason that some need more resistance than others and from the feedback I've received, older vehicles have way more variability than the newer ones. Your 2010 is not old, but also not new. Thermostats are a fickle bunch, some go 10 or more years without issue, some are shot after two years or less. Many more, in my opinion, get marginally sticky or marginally weak but will not trigger any difference in temp gauge readings or CEL warnings because they're still within acceptable limits. As mentioned, this is the main reason for the VCMuzzler coming standard with two resistance values and occasionally requiring one in between or one slightly higher. Since the 82 and 120 work for the vast majority of users, that's going to remain the standard.

I'm also wondering about your $5 reader. Mine was about $100 on Ebay and I can't see how anyone could sell a decent one for 5 bucks, so your readings might be a bit suspect to me. Mine is bluetooth as well with an app on my iphone.
Interesting (and maybe concerning!)

Note that I had the climate control system completely off. Would that impact anything? Probably not.

I'll put the ELM reader on my 2014 Accord and see how it looks. Will also drive around with the Odyssey and see what is happening.

As to the accuracy of the ELM reader, I can't comment. But the reader is reading outputs from the OBD port and I assume those are digital outputs and thus not open to "interpretation" by the reader. Other measurements seemed to be on target, for example voltage was hovering right around 14.2/14.3, RPMS seemed spot on vs the tachometer and moved in real time up and down as I changed the pedal position, etc. MAF temperature was one that I thought a bit odd, IIRC it was around 140 or 150 degrees, but I thought it was possible that was because the engine bay was hot and the air was coming in from there. I may not be remembering correctly.

Anyway my point is, doesn't the OBD just output the actual measurement from the thermostat sensors? I would assume it isn't outputting a "voltage" to whatever reader you have plugged in and allow the reader to come up with its own interpretation of the degrees Fahrenheit associated with it, but rather a digital signal that would tell any and all readers that the temperature is XXX degrees.....

I did notice the temps would move down as soon as the fan tripped on.....and would start to move up again when it tripped off. Are you saying your Pilot just sits there within a few degrees band while idling at rest? Again remember that none of this was done while moving....all just sitting at idle (or revving the engine to test throttle opening readings, RPM readings, vacuum, etc) so there is no constant stream of air to keep the radiator more constant.
 

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Yes, the OBD reader fetches the respective parameter values from the PCM's memory. It's a digital transaction. There's no interpretation done by the reader.

However, regarding the engine temperature reading that you mentioned, the PCM could have the wrong reading if the ECT sensor is inaccurate. Obviously, the reader would display that wrong reading.

Dave

Sure that makes sense.....

Before I go too wacko on this, let me run some more data both at rest and while driving and see how things look

I'd be interested if others who have Odysseys and OBD readers get similar coolant temp readings as what I'm seeing.
 

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So I ran some more tests last night including a drive around town.

While driving (I didn't get much above 45 mph and this included some stoplights) the coolant temp pegged right around 174 to 176.

When I would stop and let the engine idle for a bit, it would rise above that. In the driveway at home it rose to around 203 or so and sort of hung around that level with the hood open. This was after several minutes of idling, mind you.

So I have a question on cooling fans.....I have two of them just behind the radiator. Both of them seem to be typically OFF. When I'd let the car idle and the temp get up to the 200s, I did see the fans both come on at the same time when the temp was around 205 I believe. They ran a bit and shut off again. Their fanning caused the coolant temp to drop back down to 190 or so.

With all due respect, I'm struggling to understand why others would have coolant that is 175 area while driving YET THAT TEMP WOULD NOT RISE AT ALL when stopped with the engine running? Have you guys just let the car sit at idle and watched the OBD readout for a few minutes to see what happens? I'm not saying that the temp pops up in the first 10 seconds once you stop, by the way. But if sitting for minutes, it would make sense to me that the temp would indeed rise.

Depending on the answer to the above, either my car is acting normal and the other reports here are really based on an in-motion car, or if everyone else's engine is somehow able to keep the temperature at 175 even while sitting, then something is different for me. Are my fans normal in that they are generally OFF and both will cycle periodically if the temperature rises? Is there another fan somewhere in the system that I'm not seeing that maybe isn't working for me but is for you? On my old BMW there was a giant fan at the front of the I6 engine that would always run and used a hydraulic clutch attached to the engine itself. On the Honda with the horizontal V6 it appears there are just 2 electric fans behind the radiator that will cycle only when needed to ensure the temp stays within some bounds.

And last question for now...are those electric fans controlled by ECT1 and thus if they are supposed to turn on at 205 F for example, with VCMuzzler the actual temp might really go as high as 220 F before they would kick on (since the car will see 220F as 205 F on ECT1)?
 

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Yes, I do let it idle a lot while checking the temps after driving and while it might rise an extra one or two degrees, certainly not 30. I'm not sure why yours is going so high when idling. Some do report that after extended driving and then idling that it gets warm enough that when they start to move again, ECO comes on briefly and then goes away. They usually don't report what it gets up to though. That's what I mean about variances between vehicles. If every vehicle held it's temp in the exact same range, I wouldn't have to supply two resistors and sometimes a third to people who need it. Vehicles all have small variances in it's components, the thermostat, the ECT sensors, gunk in the radiator, or other inefficiencies in the cooling system, cooling fluid used, strength etc.

The ECU uses either ECT1 or ECT2 to turn on the fans and you're right they don't come on often in normal temps, but will come on more often in higher temps. Again, it depends on climate and specific vehicle variances. I and all others that have checked this report no difference in the way the fans operate with or without the VCMuzzler installed on a particular vehicle. Fan cycling varies between vehicles, but does not vary with or without it installed. Your vehicle does not use ECT1 only to turn on the fans. coolant temp at ECT2 is virtually always going to be higher than ECT1 so it will always control the fans.

Tested over and over and coolant temp does not adjust itself higher because of the VCMuzzler. It stays the same, just with a shift in perceived temp.
I don't see any ECT2 readout on the various OBD2 Android apps. Is that parameter not reported on the ECU system or is it called something else?

I'll run the test on my Accord, too

Glad to hear my fans are "normal" and not broken

Still just surprised that the cooling system on some of your cars keeps the ECT at the same level regardless of whether there is wind blowing across the radiator at 50mph or no wind at all (idling and the fan isn't running). Just doesn't seem intuitive to me!

He hasn't received his VCMuzzler yet. He's just looking at engine temps with his new reader in anticipation of what's going to happen. All of his readings are stock readings without the VCMuzzler installed.
Correct although I have an email showing it was delivered today, so looks like I'll be doing more "playing" real soon :)
 

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With our ScanGaugeII tracking real time coolant temps, I have seen a thirty degree rise show NO reaction on the in-dash gauge. The gauge seems to be damped at the normal (180s) level and will not show an increase until temps go really high. It has always been my understanding that this is by design, to eliminate unnecessary owner complaints.
Jerry O.
So you get a swing from 170s (while driving) up to 200+ (while at idle), too? (if so, thanks for making me less worried that my van is somewhat more "normal")

Yeah like I said that needle doesn't move AT ALL between 170 and 205 in my van at least
 

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Paid for mine Oct 14th, received it yesterday. Installed last night once it cooled down. Today will be the test. My wife doesn't even know I purchased/installed it so it'll be interesting if she notices any difference.
Uhh, unless your wife is not a woman, No, she won't notice sh&t

My wife would hardly notice if the van were driving with only 3 wheels on. She might say "what is that sound" as she is scraping down the road :)
 

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I got my kit and currently using the blue resistor, but still getting the vcm activation during cruising, the only difference I noticed having the kit is when I am going to a complete stop, no more vcm vibration or activation. should I go with the 100 resistor?
is it current 50-65 degrees here in NJ
Might be worth spending the 5 bucks (mine was $5.64 to be exact and shipped from a US address, not the 3-weeker slow boat from China) to get a Bluetooth OBD monitor. I got this one and it works fine. Then you can measure your engine coolant temp before and after the VCMuzzler and see whether it is keeping you below the necessary threshold.

Super Mini OBD2 OBDII ELM327 V1 5 Android Bluetooth Adapter Auto Scanner Torque | eBay
 

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I am going to try that next, I just wanted to hear from you or the others before I do that. From all the things I read from here that is for the warmer weather, it is fall here in NJ and the normal temp does not get up to 70 degrees.

ECO light still comes on and VCM can still be felt coming on during highway cruise.

also Hogan is that bluetooth obd reader going to work with iphone?
Re: Iphone, you know I'm not sure....I just re-read the listing and it appears it will not as it says "except Apple". I have no idea why Apple can't work with BlueTooth. My wife is an iPhone user but I am Android for the very reason that Apple always seems to have "issues" like this.....

You can probably google and see whether they sell similar cheap models that work on Iphone. I believe I saw in some other posts that there are wifi versions that work with Apple.

or, Ebay the cheapest old used Android phone you can find (probably get one for 10 bucks or something) - doesn't have to be pretty, just needs to have a working screen and Bluetooth.....

Or better yet, find a friend who uses Android and let him come over and load one of the free apps on his phone and let you take a measurement of the temps.
 

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Unfortunately for me, for some reason my 2014 Accord doesn't output anything on my OBD reader except for Battery Voltage. That's it.

I assumed that if it can read everything on a 2010 Honda that it would also read everything on a 2014 Honda. Apparently something is different.....
 

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I know it has been written that the ECO light and VCM aren't necessarily one and the same.

My question is, is the ECO light ALWAYS on when VCM activates? I realize that there could be times when ECO is on, yet VCM is off. But is there ever a situation where ECO is OFF yet VCM could be ON?

Said another way, once I install my muzzler, if I am not seeing an ECO light then I KNOW that VCM is not ever coming on?
 

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Interesting Finding Re: Engine Fan and ECT

So earlier I reported that I was finding ECT getting up into the 200-208 area WHILE AT IDLE.

Some of you were saying that was weird and you didn't experience that.

Last night, I ran some tests. Driving around and at idle, I was pegged between 174 and 176. Wow, perfect! But where was the 205s????

So I ran some more tests in my driveway.

WITH CLIMATE CONTROL ON (AUTO) I was witnessing the two electrical fans cycling ALMOST CONTINUOUSLY, which kept the ECT at 176 even at idle. They would whirr for about 12-15 secs, turn off, and literally within 5 to 6 secs they'd run again. Over and over. Is that normal?

Ok here's the weird thing. TURN CLIMATE CONTROL OFF. Now, the engine fans don't run. At all. Or I should say, until ECT is around 205. They they kick on and bring the temp down to 197 or so, and it works its way back up to 203-208 until they kick on again. Turn on the climate control again, and whirrrrrrrrrr the fans run continuously until the ECT is back down to 176ish.

Is all of this normal? Why would it care so much to keep ECT very constant while the climate control is on, but if it is off, the car doesn't seem to mind if ECT rises to 200s?

I'm going to post this out in another thread too as it isn't really only directed at VCM, but it is certainly relevant to our discussion since ECT controls VCM.


Thoughts?
 

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Just concerned since you and others had reported that your cars peg at 175, and then I thought it was interesting that mine did too but only through the activation of the fan which only happens if climate is on. It all could be perfectly normal and maybe is just by design that the car is fine sticking at 200 to 205. The car obviously runs the fan at that point to ensure it doesn't get above 208 or so.

This is all without VCmuzzler. I haven't installed it yet..... Was just trying to understand my baseline temps before I start in with the muzzler.
 

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First, let's clarify that you're observing this without the VCMuzzler installed.

I don't know why the ECU is allowing your engine to run that hot without turning the fans on. I'll test on mine again later today to see what happens on my pilot. The reason the fans are coming on when you turn on the climate control is the fans are also used for your A/C to run air past your condenser so that the A/C works correctly.

I know that I did do tests a long time ago and with and without the VCMuzzler installed, the temp at extended idle measured the same (when you account for the offset) and I'm pretty sure didn't change with A/C on or off, but that was a long time ago. I'll try again today.

Are you concerned because you think there's something wrong with your vehicle or are you concerned because you think Honda has a flaw in all of their vehicles? 203-208 isn't an overheat condition by any stretch.
See what your Pilot does if you turn off the climate control completely.

This is all interesting stuff for the VCMuzzler world.....I guess it seems that as long as my climate control is ON, which I suppose it usually is, then I should be fine with the blue resistor like others. I'm wondering if some of the people who are having "problems" with the blue resistor in stop and go traffic (and not in Death Valley heat but just normal temps) have their system off and the windows open or something.
 
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