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scratch cylinders? you mean rehone them?
The work done by dealer should be covered by Honda Warranty. Replacing piston rings involves pretty much tearing the entire engine apart.
The great thing about it is that it will rejuvenate the engine, since they will replace/reseal every gasket in it.
I sure hope they don't put oil change guys on this task, but even if they did, you CANT tell the dealer how to do their job.
No, unfortunately, he means "scratch". As in - Scratch (v): score or mark the surface of (something) with a sharp or pointed object.

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Well, I dont know how to tell the people at dealership to do or not to anything. Really! that they will need to take the engine apart? They did say the job will take 3 days. Fingers crossed. Wondering if any additional Honda warranty on the job they are going to do after it is done. Will ask them.
Yes, they will almost certainly disassemble a lot of the engine. And the very best you can do is to be polite and pleasant but firm when you're dealing with the service people. You will achieve nothing good if you go in there trying to tell them their business or raise your voice or behave unpleasantly.

Make sure that you understand exactly what will be happening. This is where being polite yet firm is most important. The service advisor is there to answer your questions - do not be afraid to ask as much as you need to feel comfortable. This is a large, invasive service job, not some everyday oil change.
 

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I've sold to dealerships and car repair places. And when I say "dealerships" I mean Honda Certified dealerships.
You've sold VCMuzzlers to Honda dealerships?! That's hilarious! I'd love to know how those conversations went:

Honda dealer: All our vehicles offer spectacular fuel economy and legendary Honda reliability!
Verbatim: Would you like to buy a VCMuzzler so that this statement becomes at least partly true?
Honda dealer: Yes please.

Am I close? :DD :DD :DD
 

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Seriously though, pardon me for jumping into your sandbox with an ounce of skepticism. I get it. You guys have been here for a long time, have seen this skepticism many times, and are tired of addressing it. I asked because the "FAQ" (which is supposed to be a summary of the 80 pages) left me with questions. As they say, "I'm from Missouri, Show Me." (I'm not actually from Missouri). If I ever get my transmission fixed I'll happily VCM along while watching my oil level and listening for detonation. :D:D Only when it goes downhill will I broach this subject again. Promise.

As an aside, here in Ensenada as long as a fix can handle the dust (and a hint of salt in the air), then you can get away with a lot. Some of the cars I see, the things they do, they amaze me.
Skepticism and questions are perfectly OK. For a lot of the folks who have been around this for a while now, it probably is a little tiresome to go around again and again. That shouldn't keep people from learning whatever they can.

With that said, the literally hundreds and hundreds of pages across various Honda and Acura forums discussing problems tied to VCM to me represent overwhelming anecdotal evidence of a real problem with these engines - those people can't all be full of it. Some might, but certainly not all.

On top of that though, is the fact that a class-action lawsuit was defended against by Honda over these problems. And the best people Honda could bring to defend the design of this system (who are far more qualified than any of us banging away here on the internet) were not able to successfully do so. HONDA LOST. Their best technicians, engineers and lawyers were unable to put together a convincing argument that VCM does not cause engine wear or damage that wouldn't otherwise occur if VCM was not applied. Honda is paying for major repairs for which I'm sure they never had any intention of paying. We can all run around in circles on this forum trying to convince each other that a problem does or does not exist, but that is ultimately pointless. That question has already been answered - with Honda's full participation, in a forum far more rigorous than this.

I believe the only reason VCM hasn't been dumped is because the problems don't occur consistently. You can be sure that Honda has done a cost/benefit analysis in deciding the future of VCM - they're not stupid. That doesn't invalidate the problems that people legitimately have. As a consumer buying a VCM-equipped vehicle, you might be fine, you might not; unfortunately you can't know which group you're going to fall in when you buy your vehicle.

The VCMuzzler is simply a device that removes an extra layer of complexity from the operation of an otherwise excellent engine. And it does it in such a way that requires extremely little investment of time and money and energy. You're right to suggest that careful monitoring and maintenance can mitigate some of the problems. But what is your time worth? If you're any kind of mechanic, the time invested in all the extra attention and maintenance an un-Muzzled VCM engine could potentially call for is worth far more than the cost of the VCMuzzler, which can basically be forgotten about once it's installed. If you're not mechanically inclined (as most drivers are not), then the set-it-and-forget-it nature of the VCMuzzler makes it even more of a no-brainer.

As others have said, it's a free country; you do with your van as you see fit and I will do the same with mine. Mine is Muzzled and runs like a top. It may have done so anyway. But I know myself and my situation and the conditions in which our Ody will operate, and I am unwilling to risk having to endure the possible consequences of just letting VCM operate normally when such a simple and (relatively) cheap solution is available.
 

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Regardless of your unfounded skepticism it was a great day for Honda owners when the Muzzler came out.
Agreed! I'd say a solid argument could be made that it was a great day for Honda when the VCMuzzler came out, not just Honda owners.

Honda keeps producing VCM-equipped vehicles and gets the credit for it with the EPA, while proactive owners have the ability to take a very simple one-time measure to ensure any damage or wear associated with VCM is minimized, thereby reducing Honda's warranty-related costs in the future and increasing customer satisfaction in a group within the population who would probably be the most likely to complain loudly.

Heck, it really is a win-win-win for everyone! :DD :DD :DD
 

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Just to let everyone know, I'm currently on vacation (wedding and honeymoon, actually) and as such, I won't be able to respond much to PM's. There's no automated reply option on PM's, unfortunately, so most people won't know I'm gone. If you happen to see anyone posting that I'm not responding, you can perhaps let them know why. Thanks.
Congratulations! All the best! :coolio:
 

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I find it interesting that so many claim that disabling VCM caused no decrease in fuel economy, based purely on faith and anecdotal observation.
This makes me laugh. Anecdotal observation is the only way to generate fuel consumption numbers - you watch how far you drive and you watch how much fuel you pump into your tank. Divide one value by the other and presto; a miles per gallon value that actually means something to you in real life.

If you believe you are getting the fuel economy that Honda says you should be without ever verifying it with your own calculations, you are taking far more on faith than any of us who have installed a VCM suppression device. And you're on much shakier ground doing it.

So we are to believe Honda included this system which had no benefit whatsoever other than reliability risk, for what? A practical joke? And the EPAs higher mileage figures were... lies?
No, the EPA mileage figures are not lies. I absolutely believe that the window sticker accurately conveys the test results. The problem is that the test conditions do not reflect the realities of everyday life for the overwhelming majority of drivers.

My theory is that Honda uses VCM primarily because it gives excellent results on the EPA fuel consumption test loop. It allows Honda to meet the CAFE requirements set out by the EPA in the most cost-effective way possible. All the other ways that Honda could reduce the fuel consumption of vehicles as large as the Odyssey, Pilot, and Ridgeline are far more difficult or labour-intensive, and therefore expensive.

I do not believe that Honda cares whether or not VCM actually reduces fuel consumption in real life; no one buys two-and-a-half ton V6-powered people and cargo haulers expecting to get great mileage. If it happens to improve fuel economy for some drivers in daily use, so much the better, but I think that's considered a fringe benefit from Honda's perspective. This is also why I believe that Honda doesn't really care if some proactive owners out there suppress VCM; Honda has already gotten everything they need out of it before you ever drive the van off the lot.

A more cynical interpretation of all this is that VCM is for Honda basically just like Volkswagen's "Dieselgate" software in purpose and intent, except it's out in the open and therefore legal. It's Honda's way of gaming the system. It's all about saving money, not fuel. If Honda's large vehicles exposed the company to CAFE violation penalties, they'd become prohibitively expensive to both Honda and consumers. Honda probably doesn't produce and sell enough Fits, Civics and HR-Vs to offset the Odysseys, Pilots and Ridgelines without VCM's help.
 

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Logical fail, do I have to explain why? I am not claiming I get the mileage Honda says I should get, thats an entirely different equation that no one could prove nor is even important. I am merely saying you could not reliably claim mileage is unchanged before and after a modification without accurate telemetry and measurement both before and after. Can you direct me to anyones' "real life" documentation here that I missed?

The rest of your post was interesting, informative and probably quite accurate. Thank you for that.
You actually could prove whether or not you are achieving a particular MPG value, but you choose to not keep track of that, which is fine.

I agree with you that a dose of skepticism is appropriate when considering fuel economy claims, but you really don't need exceptionally accurate measurements to detect a meaningful difference. If (fuel pumped)/(distance driven) is a sufficiently accurate methodology to establish a plausible baseline prior to modification, then it is sufficiently accurate to determine fuel consumption after the modification is installed. And I think that's what people are most likely doing.

In my particular case, we owned our 2015 Ody for about 8 months before I installed a VCMuzzler, which I consider sufficient driving time to establish a baseline fuel consumption level. We tended to range between 23-25 MPG based on actual volumes and distances (not trusting the onboard computer to calculate) for those eight months in mixed city/highway driving situations. Of course, outliers would occasionally occur if the weather happens to be very warm and we do more highway driving or if the weather is very cold and we are confined to urban driving and idling. We have now had a VCMuzzler installed for nearly two years since then and continue to get fuel consumption numbers between 23 and 25 MPG, with the same occasional outliers. I do not have all of these numbers stored in a spreadsheet or other document that I could share with you (I aspire to that level of organization, but have not yet achieved it), but these calculations form the basis for my statement that for our van, suppressing VCM did not significantly affect fuel consumption.

An old-fashioned "butt dynamometer" instinct is not appropriate to use in this conversation and should be discouraged - I'm with you on that. I also understand that it's tempting to presume that every report of "no real change" without any data presented is a case of confirmation bias. But I think it's a little unfair to presume that the absence of data presented implies that no data was ever collected.

Speaking for myself, I wish I had understood at the time of our purchase how interesting some of these conversations would become - I would have taken much more care to record real numerical data. To be honest, when we bought our van, I was only vaguely aware that VCM might be troublesome. I certainly did not know then what I know now. I thought transmission problems were going to be the biggest threat to a positive ownership experience. Live and learn.

Nice discussing this stuff with you.
 

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Here is a question. I am about to order mine. When you see or walk by another ODY do you ask the driver if they know about VCM issues and the muzzler? I think once we install and like ours we would, consider it improves drivability and perhaps helps prevent the aforementioned problems.
I think you might be misreading his post. It seems like he was saying that now that he has VCMuzzler, he might just approach other Ody owners as an "evangelist" and tell them how VCMuzzler is great and they should consider doing same to protect themselves from the devil of VCM....
Outside of the OdyClub community, I find it hard to be an advocate for the VCMuzzler without either getting into a VERY lengthy conversation and explanation or sounding like Chicken Little. Although when the sky finally did fall for one of our friends with toasted engine mounts and sudden frightening oil consumption, they were gracious enough to acknowledge that I’d told them the failure was a real possibility.

People who come to this forum to ask questions or discuss about VCM are at least prepared to entertain the possibility that they are facing a serious problem. Joe Q Public Honda owner out there in the real world? Not so much.
 

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I purchase the vcm 2 yrs ago, but have not installed it ... one of the reasons is because I didnt understand how to use/ install it .. (which resistor to use)


Is there a thread that gives detailed instructions

I am going on a long distance trip (from cold to hot climates) and would like to install before I leave to make there are no issues
You always start with the blue and only make adjustments to the other colours if and when you see it becomes necessary.

Every van and every cooling system is slightly different, just due to age, care, use, environment, etc... So the best way to go is to start with the least added resistance possible and see how it goes for you. It is possible to add too much resistance, which will cause a Check Engine light.
 

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Hi,

I bought mine VCM Disabler through eBay. Paid about USD 55 incl shipping to Germany.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/172776695580

I have Version 2.0, the seller now offers Version 3.0

I installed it yesterday and it works like a charm. VCM is inactive, the car runs smoother, much more responsive, especially when driving through the city. Also I think even the transmission behaves/ shifts better now (?)

I needed a VCM Disabler shipped to Germany and the one I bought on eBay was the only one offering shipping to Germany. And it does the trick.

But I don't know why his is just half the price compared to the other VCM Disabler solutions available. Quality wise it made a good impression...
What you bought is not as well made as the VCMuzzler. The VCMuzzler has far superior connections and moisture isolation. I hope it works well for you in the long term because I don't want anyone to have problems, but I won't be surprised it starts to fail after a while.
 

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Question about spark plugs.

I'm one of the early user of VCM Muzzler, I installed it when my Ody had 14K miles. I driven 60,000 miles with the Muzzler on.

But I'm now wondering if it's doing the job we all hope. On my last two J35V6 Hondas, the check engine line came on at around 64K and 67K miles. Fouled plugs. Honda took care of it.

Although I'm sort of still at that mark, I'm just wondering about the spark plugs. Should I go ahead an change them out early? I know they are rated for 105K miles, but with VCM, I don't know. Most would agree they won't last till 105K

I suppose I can take my spark plugs out and see. But if I'm going to do that, might as well DIY replace them. Plus the rear 3 plus are the ones that are affected by VCM. That's a lot more work, again, if I'm removing them, why not just replace them.

So the question is, have any of you gone 100K miles on the Muzzler, how did your spark plus look?

Or did you had to replace your plugs even when you have the Muzzler on?
I'm nowhere near 100,000 miles either, but if you are really curious, pull the plug in cylinder 3 only and then decide what to do. If VCM is doing its thing, that'll be the worst one; all the others should be in better shape. If cylinder 3's plug looks decent, be happy and button her up for another 30,000 miles. If not, then pull the rest and make your call.

I wouldn't change them simply for the heck of it - they're pricey. Why waste the money if you don't have to?
 
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