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Makes sense to me. I have a gen 2 insight and it will not enginer ev mode alone, auto stop or other fuel saving modes if all conditions are met or a CEL.

Im glad someone mentioned the vcm systems. One is either 3 or 6 cylinders working the other is 4,5,6 if I recall correctly.

With the insight engine water temp is key, if it drops too low it stops the fuel saving options to build temp back. So running the heater will kill mpg in the winter. Going too hot above 190 will retard timing too, but not effect auto stop and such. Use of the front windshield defroster also disables the systems.

On the flip side to milk the most mpg from the insight is to pulse & glide. You speed up 5 past your desired mpg and coast down with light throttle. This gives light enough load to engage the fuel savings parts, then when you speed back up you rebuild the temp and other conditions it needs to repeat the process.
 

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Oh, and as far as when you can buy one goes, they're on sale now, but I'm not allowed to post a classified here yet, and presumably nothing about selling on regular threads. I think it's ok to say you can just PM me though.
Verbatim, why not sell it on eBay or Kijiji?
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Did eBay. Reached my selling limit for the month in a couple hours. Until I prove myself as a legit seller they won't raise my limit.

Kijiji is ok but no onllne payment forms. I've just been sending PayPal invoices or doing email money transfers (Canada only for the last one).
 

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Great minds think alike! I had suggested somthing like this in the vcm reliability thread back in november when i noticed our 2014 would not engage vcm until the engine reached normal operating temp. Never got a reply. I am glad you have devised a solution using oem connectors so no splicing is needed. I could take it off when dealer maintenance is due. Latest ring replacement thread in the 11+ forum has convinced me vcm is not worth the risk.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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@verbatim:

Coming back and reading all the updates made me happy. Sounds like you have legit solution, and I like your thinking. I agree with you that 15 degrees cooler isn't going to change AFR's. I have quite a bit of experience with standalone fuel and spark management for turbocharged applications, and I've never seen 15 degrees of engine temp make a difference once you're up past the 150 degree F range.

I have a 2005 Odyssey, and would be thrilled to have a plug and play solution for my older ECT plug style. Especially since kgardonia's nice fix only works on the 2007-newer as well...there is a large crowd of 05-06 owners that are getting up in the miles that would really like to get rid of VCM for long haul.
 

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Hello, joined this forum just for this thread.

I just bought a 2010 Honda Pilot EX-L and the VCM was my real only concern. Having read through this thread, I'm very interested in trying out the solution proposed by verbatim and report back the results once I'm up and running.

Verbatim, could you contact me at your earliest convenience? If you have any of your units available I would gladly purchase for testing. I'm in Calgary, so shipping shouldn't be too bad.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Is there a detailed DIY with pics. etc?
Thanks.
I don't have a detailed DIY for making the harness itself. The male connectors are only available from China in quantities larger than 100 and you need to buy a special crimp tool. If anyone wants to see the 4 page installation manual with pics on how to install it, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

Attached are pics from the manual.

IMG_1250.jpg IMG_1262-s.jpg IMG_1264-s.jpg IMG_1265-s.jpg IMG_1266-s.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #52
@verbatim:

Coming back and reading all the updates made me happy. Sounds like you have legit solution, and I like your thinking. I agree with you that 15 degrees cooler isn't going to change AFR's. I have quite a bit of experience with standalone fuel and spark management for turbocharged applications, and I've never seen 15 degrees of engine temp make a difference once you're up past the 150 degree F range.

I have a 2005 Odyssey, and would be thrilled to have a plug and play solution for my older ECT plug style. Especially since kgardonia's nice fix only works on the 2007-newer as well...there is a large crowd of 05-06 owners that are getting up in the miles that would really like to get rid of VCM for long haul.
I'm going to put in an order for some of the older style connectors, but I'm still waiting for someone to post a pic of what it looks like. There's two connectors that it could be, and I can't remember which one it is. I'd have to go to a wrecking yard to find out myself and I haven't done that yet, so if someone would post a close up of a disconnected female end, I could order some connectors.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Hello, joined this forum just for this thread.

I just bought a 2010 Honda Pilot EX-L and the VCM was my real only concern. Having read through this thread, I'm very interested in trying out the solution proposed by verbatim and report back the results once I'm up and running.

Verbatim, could you contact me at your earliest convenience? If you have any of your units available I would gladly purchase for testing. I'm in Calgary, so shipping shouldn't be too bad.

Thanks
PM sent.
 

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Any time one plays with the temp sensor circuit, expect fuel economy issues.
In most modern cars, the fuel enrichment stops when coolant temp is > 60C or so.

Between -20C and +60C, the fuel enrichment varies by a pre-determined graph.

Personally, I'd stick with kgardonia's mod, the only issue with the kgardonia's mod is CEL. The solution for the CEL light is:

- Black electrical tape to cover it.

- Make it a habit to scan for non-VCM codes, once every 2 weeks, keep a diary in the car so you know when you last checked for non-VCM codes.
 

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I would agree that playing with the coolant temp sensor would have an effect on fuel economy, except that apparently there are TWO different engine coolant temp sensors. This mod only affects engine coolant sensor 1, so there is still a sensor 2 in normal operation. I think verbatim's theory is that the determining factor in adjusting fuel enrichment is an OR scenario where it looks at both temps and picks the highest one. Of course, no one has definitively confirmed this, so it's just a theory. I'm hoping with more people using it, we'll get enough user feedback to know for sure what side effects this method causes vs kgardonia's.

I just wish Honda would give us a REAL VCM disable option!
 

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I would agree that playing with the coolant temp sensor would have an effect on fuel economy, except that apparently there are TWO different engine coolant temp sensors. This mod only affects engine coolant sensor 1, so there is still a sensor 2 in normal operation. I think verbatim's theory is that the determining factor in adjusting fuel enrichment is an OR scenario where it looks at both temps and picks the highest one. Of course, no one has definitively confirmed this, so it's just a theory. I'm hoping with more people using it, we'll get enough user feedback to know for sure what side effects this method causes vs kgardonia's.

I just wish Honda would give us a REAL VCM disable option!
Why wouldn't we want to add a switch to verbatim's solution so we could switch it in and out when desired?

Wouldn't it makes sense to engage the VCM when cruising down the highway for 3 or 4 hours while having the ability to turn it off when in town?
 

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Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
Any time one plays with the temp sensor circuit, expect fuel economy issues.
In most modern cars, the fuel enrichment stops when coolant temp is > 60C or so.
This solution only drops the temp the PCM sees at full operating temp down to about 71C, well above where enrichment stops. Neither I, nor anyone else that's used this has seen any evidence of massive fuel consumption or too rich of a fuel mixture. I plan to pull the plugs soon to see their condition, but I do not believe A/F is affected like you seem to think.

Oh, and A/F ratio is more affected by IAT, MAP, etc, not coolant temp. Any enrichment at startup is long gone once the temps reach what the new indicated temp is and the other sensors are taking over the A/F ratio.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Why wouldn't we want to add a switch to verbatim's solution so we could switch it in and out when desired?

Wouldn't it makes sense to engage the VCM when cruising down the highway for 3 or 4 hours while having the ability to turn it off when in town?
You could do that. Some are incorporating that into their install. I made a solution that's easily convertible with no trace because I want to be able to switch back to stock before taking in to a dealer so that they can't contest warranty claims because of a modification. One other thing I do not know is what will happen with CEL when you do an instantaneous temp shift like that. It might throw a code. i've noticed it's a bit touchy and in my instructions I say to only install when the engine is cold. It might not give a code, but I've never tried it and I haven't heard back from anyone who is trying it yet.

It takes literally less than two minutes to remove. If you're going on a long trip on the highway and want to use VCM (I wouldn't, I just hate what it does to an engine), then just remove it and go back to stock.

Again, everyone has their own ideas, and adding a switch is desirable by some.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
I just wish Honda would give us a REAL VCM disable option!
Don't hold your breath. That would cause Honda two problems: 1. they wouldn't get their EPA rating and would be subject to big fines if people were allowed to disable VCM. Other auto makers allow you to disable ECO mode (whatever algorithm they're using for fuel economy), but it doesn't affect their rating enough to cause them pain. 2. It would be an admission that VCM sucks if you allow people to disable it.

GM doesn't have a switch either for the same reason on their ACM system (which also sucks, from what I've read). They were foolish enough to allow programming through the OBD port that would disable it and Range Technologies has taken advantage of that. It would be nice if there was a plug in solution for Honda's VCM, but there isn't. Further evidence of this is the fact that in any TSB where honda requires the tech to disable VCM to troubleshoot vibrations etc, they list Kgardonia's method for disabling it for a test drive, i.e. pulling the pressure switch connector. If there was a way through the OBD port, they would instruct the tech to disable it using the honda diagnostic tool, but they don't.

Lots of people are holding their breath for Honda or someone else to come up with an easy way to shut off VCM. Hate to say it, but it isn't going to happen.
 
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