[97widerider]

My wife is dead set on a 2013 Odyssey over what I wanted, a 2013 Sienna. We have a 2005 Odyssey with 152, 000 trouble free miles but I still hear about problems with the transmissions even here in 2013. I haven't seen where a 2013 trans has died yet but maybe I haven't be digging deep enough. Don't get it. Anyways, if we get the 2013 Odyssey, I plan on doing a 3x trans change every other oil change just as insurance. I just don't understand how draining 3 old quarts in a what, 9 -12 qt capacity trans, helps anything at all. I have done two 3x drain and fills in our 2005 over the years and the fluid ends up red even after a 2200 mile round trip at 150,000 miles. So I can see how that might help. Only problem is I don't like spending $100 on 9 qts of trans fluid every other oil change or even yearly. As added insurance, I am adding an oil cooler.

Can somebody tell me how the homeowner's version of a trans fluid change (3 qts) helps anything? Thanks.

 

[pkrface]

The "homeowners" version is exactly the same as the dealership version, in that all you can do is drain and fill. The multi drain and fill is simply to cause more of the fluid to be changed than just the initial ~3 quarts. Somewhere on the board here a member much smarter than I posted how much new fluid is in the system after 2X, 3X, or 4X drain/fills. IIRC the 2X was 70+%, 3X 80+% and 4X was 90+%, so you can see how multi drain/fills are much better than a single drain/fill that only gets around 40% new fluid. Since Honda urgently discourages flushing, the drain/fill is the way to go. Just like oil, trans fluid properties change with age/use and getting new fluid in there ensures that what is there is doing what it is supposed to do.

 

[97widerider]

I think I crossed that thread somewhere along the line. Yes, I remember that is all the dealership does as well and I saw the Honda bulletin on how they do the 3x drain and fill. Again, same as the homeowner's version. If we get this new Ody I think I will do a 3x at every 36k miles. That would be just short of every two years for us. A 3x only just seem to be an exercise in futility. I am hoping someone will chime in and say "Honda has fixed the transmission issue, no worries" .

On a side note, I just heard an interesting story from a coworker that he heard last night from his neighbor. His neighbor is a Toyota tech at a dealership and he was letting loose on the dealerships work ethic and how they operate in the service dept. He said that Mother Toyota only allows so many warranty repairs per year per dealership. The head tech is to ration that throughout the year so they often do not do NEEDED repairs under warranty. They anticipate if this broke repair can be delayed until after the warranty expires, they will say nothing is wrong. He said they are ethically corrupt and yes that says alot about his character to continue to work there. I just found the info interesting. It makes you wonder if Honda has the same warranty repair cap and that is why so many people take their vehicles in with funny noises or what not and the dealership can't seem to find anything wrong. Yeah you don't know me from Adam and may think this is BS but I believe my coworker so it does matter to me. Just something interesting....

 

[adr5]

Transmission fluid has additives that slowly break down over time. When change the fluid, even if you don't drain and replace it all, you are replenishing those additives. I would follow Honda's recommendations and not worry about it.

 

[davedrivesody]

I think one drain and fill every 12,000 miles would be better than 3x every 36,000 miles. This would keep the additives at a more even level over time.

 

[97widerider]

Well we bought a 2013 so I will be paying close attention and keeping detailed service records from mile 1. My family puts about 19,000 miles a year on our van so I plan on doing a 3 quart change yearly, so roughly every 19,000 miles. That is 3 qts of fluid for every 18 qts of oil (4 oil changes). Only fair to the trans. Why not treat it with the same TLC as the as the engine?

 

[manualman]

My 2003 has 202,000 miles on it and has NEVER had a 3x ATF change. Pink and fresh smelling too.

I've got a modest tube/fin cooler on there (aftermarket tow package), have changed the ATF spin filter twice and have done the 1x ATF change on average about every 15,000 miles. Oh, and about 20k of those miles were towing near the max. About 10% of THOSE miles were in mountains.

You guys worry too much. Change it enough to keep it clearish and pink, not dark and opaque. If there is an external filter, change it every 100k or so (if not, add one!). Then drive happy.

 

[jondotcom]

Transmission fluid has additives that slowly break down over time. When change the fluid, even if you don't drain and replace it all, you are replenishing those additives. I would follow Honda's recommendations and not worry about it.

But Honda hasn't recommend doing regular drain/fills.

To over-simplify it, just keep the fluid cool and well-filtered and you will help the longevity of the transmission. When my vehicles are out of warranty I add big ATF cooler, but for a new van I would probably go with the OEM one for the tow package.

 

[97widerider]

Wow manualman, hearing you have 202,000 miles on an 03 makes me wish we would have kept our 05 with 152,000 trouble free miles. If we didn't put 20,000 miles a year on it, I would probably would have kept it a few more years.

 

[Porsche tech]

On a side note, I just heard an interesting story from a coworker that he heard last night from his neighbor. His neighbor is a Toyota tech at a dealership and he was letting loose on the dealerships work ethic and how they operate in the service dept. He said that Mother Toyota only allows so many warranty repairs per year per dealership. The head tech is to ration that throughout the year so they often do not do NEEDED repairs under warranty. They anticipate if this broke repair can be delayed until after the warranty expires, they will say nothing is wrong. He said they are ethically corrupt and yes that says alot about his character to continue to work there. I just found the info interesting. It makes you wonder if Honda has the same warranty repair cap and that is why so many people take their vehicles in with funny noises or what not and the dealership can't seem to find anything wrong. Yeah you don't know me from Adam and may think this is BS but I believe my coworker so it does matter to me. Just something interesting....

Sounds like it was a good thing your wife wouldn't go for the Toyota! The warranty cap story is interesting, albeit very difficult to swallow. It seems like that would be very difficult for the manufacturer to police. Having recently retired from 42 years in the automotive business at the dealership level, my experience was that the manufacturer put so much emphasis on CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index) and JD Powers and such, that to limit warranty repairs would be self defeating. There was "hold back" money that the manufacturer would not pay the dealerships if the CSI level was not maintained. Sales, parts and service personnel had pay scales that were partially driven by CSI scores. While I am sure that I wasn't privy to everything that went on, I had never heard of any such cap on needed warranty repairs (granted it wasn't a Toyota store). I will say that the manufacturer would go out of their way to not pay the dealership for warranty repairs that were done without all the proper documentation (punch time on the repair order, correct labor operation numbers, etc.). Man, retirement is great!--Dave

 

[FarmDog]

My 2003 has 202,000 miles on it and has NEVER had a 3x ATF change. Pink and fresh smelling too.

I've got a modest tube/fin cooler on there (aftermarket tow package), have changed the ATF spin filter twice and have done the 1x ATF change on average about every 15,000 miles. Oh, and about 20k of those miles were towing near the max. About 10% of THOSE miles were in mountains.

You guys worry too much. Change it enough to keep it clearish and pink, not dark and opaque. If there is an external filter, change it every 100k or so (if not, add one!). Then drive happy.

Manualman, I just noticed your response to my old trans problem post on the '03 thread. I have done the same things as you, changed trans fluids on regular basis, have a good cooler, changed that filter when I did the timing belt at 103k, but still had trans failure. In my case I was informed by the dealer when I took my 30k mile van in for the spray jet recall that my trans fluid looked very bad. I bought the factory fluid and did a 3x change at that time and yes the fluid in mine looked like brown crud at 30k miles and it had been driven easily. I had put my cooler on around 25-27k going from memory here? I had just put a trailer hitch on when I put the cooler on but had not towed anything yet. The most I tow is a small lightweight 4x8 single axle trailer that comes nowhere near towing capacity. But after the initial fluid change that looked horrible, even though the trans eventually started shifting very hard and caused trouble for many years, each fluid change looked perfect, even until the day I replaced it the fluid looked and smelled fine. So I'll conclude that fluid appearance does not always coincide with if your trans will fail. Some have had no trans problems, but having read so many stories on the Ody trans I conclude that maintenance, coolers, etc have little to do with if it will fail, there is too much evidence that it is doomed from day one and no amount of pampering will save one that was destined for failure.

2003 Odyssey's had 3yr 36,000 mile warranty which meant the first scheduled “normal” trans fluid change was due after warranty, pretty suspicious I would say.

 

[FarmDog]

Can somebody tell me how the homeowner's version of a trans fluid change (3 qts) helps anything? Thanks.

I used to do 3x every 30k miles on my OEM trans. I now do 1x every other oil change on my Jasper replacement, which = every 14-15k miles. I agree with the others that 3 quarts helps keep the anti friction materials refreshed, my reasoning is 3x seemed to be overkill, the fluid always looked and smelled good, and the reason I now prefer to do it more often is the magnetic drain plug collects plenty of blackish crud on it, I've noticed at 15k miles it is pretty well covered, so IMO cleaning that off sooner would allow it to be more effective than waiting until 30k. There is enough crud on it at 15k I believe it may not be effective much past that and allow more junk to float through the system. When I tried changing trans fluid at 7500 miles the plug, while having some collection, was not fully coated with crud. Also, when I used to change at 30k the crud was too heavy and I have little doubt it was thick enough to be falling off and recirculating. That said, I'm dealing with an '03 and have not followed the newer ones and if they are acting the same as ours.