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Discussion Starter #1
Just got my Ody. Put in the CD changer I got from Dalt's Honda. Everything sounds okay, but just as I've read, it is not on a par with other factory car audio. I'll probably put Pioneer (1665 or 1695) in the doors. Have not picked a rear speaker but does anyone want to recommend one (even a component job)?

Music freak that I am, I'm a relative audio boob. Is it dumb to put the factory stuff (which I plan to keep) through an amp. I'm thinking Pioneer (who made the head units) probably has one that plugs right in. Wouldn't that take the speaker upgrade to the next level? If so, what amp would you recommend?

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'57 Chevy Belair Sport Coupe.
If at first you don't succeed...so much for skydiving.
 

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I got a 6 1/2 co-axial in the rear and a 5 1/4 2-way component set up front Although I wish I could have a 6 1/2 up front but the depth the mb quart series in 6 1/2 wont fit in the front doors without doing some cutting. yes you could run a factory head unit using an amp and it would be to your advantage to get the most out of your aftermarket speakers. just go with any reliable brands that has at least a 4 x 75w rating would be a good start off point.

Hope this helps.

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'02 Odyssey EX Redrock Pearl
Alpine Multi Media setup
MB Quart speakers
PS2
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ken W:
Just got my Ody. Put in the CD changer I got from Dalt's Honda. Everything sounds okay, but just as I've read, it is not on a par with other factory car audio. I'll probably put Pioneer (1665 or 1695) in the doors. Have not picked a rear speaker but does anyone want to recommend one (even a component job)?
</font>
You mentioned component system, but why for rear? If you are interested in best sound for the driver and front seat passenger, put your best speakers (and most $$) up front. Rear is much less important, unless your kids/passengers are very discriminating. My recommendation is switch fronts first with the best you are willing to spend and then evaluate. Pioneers are excellent bang/buck but if you are a music freak and have pretty discrimiating tastes, shop around and audition, I'd highly recommend. If you are looking to spend sig. less that $100 for front speaks and want bang/buck, installation simplicity, etc.. Pioneer is a great way to go.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Music freak that I am, I'm a relative audio boob. Is it dumb to put the factory stuff (which I plan to keep) through an amp. I'm thinking Pioneer (who made the head units) probably has one that plugs right in. Wouldn't that take the speaker upgrade to the next level? If so, what amp would you recommend?
</font>
Again, I'd recommend an incremental approach to car audio. Upgrade, evaluate, then consider what to do. The best advice I can give is that speakers are the first thing to look at on a SQ perspective. No doubt they are the biggest bottleneck. After that, I think the amp question is purely a question of dynamic range/headroom, and pure SPL (volume) capability. If you think after upgrading speakers that the sound is good at low volumes, but just not loud enough for you, an amp is a good next step. Where people fail is expecting it to sound BETTER with an amp. That's just not the case, unless you are talking about eliminating distortion when cranking the volume.

Another way to go after evaling the speak upgrade is to add a sub if you think only the low end is suffering....

To answer your specific questions regarding amps, etc...

1) I believe Panasonic manufactures the OEM head unit. I'm not 100% sure, but check the sticker on it when you pop it out. If it says "Matsushita Electronics" or the like, bingo.

2) There is no amp that would just plug directly into the head unit. In the very least, a power cable needs to be run from the battery to the passenger compartment to make this work. It may be possible to tap power inside where the factory sub/foglights attach, but then you are limited in terms of how much current you can draw. I don't recommend this approach at all, but have heard people do this. Also, you need to tap the 12V remote turn on from the head unit...

3) Recommended amps: brand is something sujective. I tend to like higher end brands, but for you I'd recommend something like Sony/Pioneer/Kenwood/etc... Alpine would be great if you could afford it, they are very good for the $$. I say stay away from Jensen, and lesser brands. In terms of power, it really depends again on the brand. You see, there is no universal standard by which manufacturers rate their amps. Rather than getting into a long winded discussion again on amps and power (search back, I've written before), suffice it to say I think 40-50W/ch (RMS, full bandwidth) is plenty for the brands listed above. Also, if you plan to upgrade factory, make sure you get an amp with speaker level inputs.

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-Shin John
'01 DEP EX, and I'm workin' on it! (slowly)
 

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I agree. Upgrade the speakers first, then if that's not enough go with either an amp or the Honda sub.

I did however install an amp, for various reasons – mainly for the NAVI voice, but I’m very happy with the amp I chose. Now it doesn’t crank out high wattage like those boomin’ sound system you hear on the street but it is well equipped and has a decent power output. I got the Apline MRP-F320 - a 5 channel amp with a max power of 75W x 4 + 180W (for a sub). And most places on the net sell them for less than $200. Not bad, I think?

I'll eventually get a sub, most likely a bazooka, for back because those 4 inchers in my 2000 just don’t cut it in the bass department.

-Nestor

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2000 CCS EX-NAVI

[This message has been edited by nemogira (edited 02-27-2002).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nemogira:
I got the Apline MRP-F320 - a 5 channel amp with a max power of 75W x 4 + 180W (for a sub). And most places on the net sell them for less than $200. Not bad, I think?
</font>
Case in point, look at the specs for this amp, from the Alpine website:

• Max Power (EIAJ) 75W x 4 + 180W (4ohm;
Stereo) 180W x 2 + 180W x 1 (Bridged
4ohm ;)
• 14.4V RMS Continuous Power 4ohm; Stereo
(0.08% THD) 40W x 4 + (0.3% THD)120W x
1(4ohm ;) 2ohm; Stereo (0.3% THD) 50W x 4
+ (0.3% THD)120W x 1(4ohm ;) Bridged
4ohm; (0.3% THD) 100W x 2 + 120W x 1

Then you have manufacturers of high end competition amps rate using IASCA standards at 12V, which are REALLY conservative. Little 50W (spec) amps that can produce several hundred watts of power RMS into a <1ohm load.

So looking at the 14.4V spec, that's what I'm talking about when I speak of 40W, though I'd like them to say they've tested at full bandwidth, not just 1 KHz. Nestor's suggestion is a good basic amp for a person wanting a full system solution in one compact package....

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I'll eventually get a sub, most likely a bazooka, for back because those 4 inchers in my 2000 just don’t cut it in the bass department.

-Nestor
</font>
It's sub shoppin' time Nestor! Come on, let's do it! But knowing you, why not build a nice custom sub for your application?

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-Shin John
'01 DEP EX, and I'm workin' on it! (slowly)

[This message has been edited by shinjohn (edited 02-27-2002).]
 

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Huh, you learn something new everyday...

So is it more realistic (or proper) to say that this amp produces 40w x 4 + 120w x 1? Just wondering incase I get into any future amp spec discussions.


Sub building eh? Would it be cheaper if I just build one? The thing I like about Bazooka's are they're pretty inexpensive (I guess), good bass, compact and my most of my fingers will be intact!


-Nestor


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2000 CCS EX-NAVI

[This message has been edited by nemogira (edited 02-27-2002).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nemogira:


Sub building eh? Would it be cheaper if I just build one? The thing I like about Bazooka's are they're pretty inexpensive (I guess), good bass, compact and my most of my fingers will be intact!


-Nestor

</font>
C'mon Nestor.A few missing fingers won't hurt !

Let's do it this way,Shinjohn does the specs,I'll help you build it.No joking.I love biulding stuff.
I also suggest the Bazooka. Like i said,it gives good bass in my car. Not sure how it will react with the Ody interior.I could bring it with me to the meet and you could try it out.
Or you could get that new Bazooka shaped and painted like a NOS bottle.Have you guys seen it ?


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-ROB-
'01 GG LX "Lagreat"(with lotsa stuff.S-T-U-F-F)

http://community.webshots.com/album/18601743AkjQIJiKqK
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nemogira:

So is it more realistic (or proper) to say that this amp produces 40w x 4 + 120w x 1? Just wondering incase I get into any future amp spec discussions.

</font>
Yep. You got it. Sales guys try to talk Max numbers to make it sound impressive. But like I said, you have to be specific. Different people talk different numbers. Make sure you compare similarly. The main things to look at are:

RMS vs. dynamic power
test voltage
bandwidth of test
THD

Another way to look at it: what test standard was used?

I could go on about other specs, but enough on power...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Sub building eh? Would it be cheaper if I just build one? The thing I like about Bazooka's are they're pretty inexpensive (I guess), good bass, compact and my most of my fingers will be intact!


-Nestor

</font>
Like Rob says, who needs all them fingers, huh?

Seriously, I'd be glad to help you by recommending and even specing/designing if you go to a custom solution.

It may not be cheaper, to be completely honest, but I think the results are almost always better and more customized to the particular person's needs. And, it's a whole lot more fun doing it yourself...

Why don't you start by telling me your budget, and I'll throw out an idea...

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-Shin John
'01 DEP EX, and I'm workin' on it! (slowly)
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by hachiroku:

Or you could get that new Bazooka shaped and painted like a NOS bottle.Have you guys seen it ?

</font>
You talking about the triangular one, or something else? I haven't seen anything like it.....yet..


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-Shin John
'01 DEP EX, and I'm workin' on it! (slowly)

[This message has been edited by shinjohn (edited 03-01-2002).]
 

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Even still with the Ody - "space" is very important to me. Ideally, I would like to place it in the side compartment in the back where we store the headrests. I want to be able to use the magic seat without having to fuss with the subs relocation. It has to be able to handle 180...I mean 120W
. Sub size? Foot-long j/k
. Any size really as long as it fits, I guess? Price? Hopefully no more than $200.

-Nestor

P.S. LOL!
A bazooka that looks like a NOS bottle. I've got to see that!

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HOMER'S ODYSSEY
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Playitloud. How do you like your Quarts. I haven't gotten out to audition speakers yet, but they are on my short list. (I've got MB Quart QLS530 in my living room and they are the best speaker I've ever heard anywhere. the 800 beans per pair was not in my budget, but they were just twice as good as the runner ups.) I'm sure I can fit the 6.5 in the ody's front door.

Shin John. Thanks for all of your thorough advice. The reason I was talking components in back was that people and stuff block the highs from their current location. Also, the fronts are already component with a tweeter in the dash, right? Is there a crossover in the factory system because I don't hear much sound coming from those tweets?

What I meant by an amp that "Plugs in" was just the factory harnass for the speakers. I would run a dedicated cable from the fuse box for power (IGN).

I plan on doing the speakers first. I'm willing to spend 200 for the front pair. Then $150 for the rear and maybe $200 or less for the amp. It all depends on how much improvement it is. My main beef with stock is muddyness. I've spoiled myself with the crystal clear zero distortion seamless low-mid-hi response of the gonzo home sytem (Sony ES, MB Quart, Klipsh KSW-10). Maybe I'll get that power inverter and stick it all in the van. Including the couch, because that's where I'm sleeping when Mrs. W finds out.




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'57 Chevy Belair Sport Coupe.
If at first you don't succeed...so much for skydiving.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by shinjohn:

[/b]</font>
You talking about the triangular one, or something else? I haven't seen anything like it.....yet..

[/B][/QUOTE]
Saw it in Autoweek a few issues ago.It was unveiled at one of the car shows (I forgot which).Not sure but I think it's a proto.Looks cool though.


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-ROB-
'01 GG LX "Lagreat"(with lotsa stuff.S-T-U-F-F)

http://community.webshots.com/album/18601743AkjQIJiKqK
 

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Ken,
I really like the MB Quarts they sound so much better than the stock but then again anything is really better than the factory speakers except maybe for some Jensen speakers. I used the Premuim line component set for the front and the Discus line co-axial for the rear. The Quarts are a little pricey but well worth it the front that I have cost around the 300 range while the rear was 170 which is just up there on your alley and the sub was around 220. Follow shinjohn's advice my first set up was without any amp, just using the factory head unit's built in amp and it was great but I was force to buy an amp when I started to add and build my home theater in the van then things become even better.

Hope this help. There are a lot of brands to try and test but its just like food some people like sushi some don't.



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'02 Odyssey EX Redrock Pearl
Alpine Multi Media setup
MB Quart speakers
PS2
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nemogira:
Even still with the Ody - "space" is very important to me. Ideally, I would like to place it in the side compartment in the back where we store the headrests. I want to be able to use the magic seat without having to fuss with the subs relocation. It has to be able to handle 180...I mean 120W
. Sub size? Foot-long j/k
. Any size really as long as it fits, I guess? Price? Hopefully no more than $200.

-Nestor

</font>
Hmm, that's a little tougher based on the location you want. There are two off the shelf solutions that fit there; a 6" bazooka (kinda wimpy, I'd think for you) and the Subsolutions bandpass mentioned in this forum (never heard one).

That location is a little tough, due to its shape. Rob, are you comfortable fabricating with fiberglass? You could make best use of the space back there with a custom fiberglass enclosure, but its ALOT of work (and messy too).

Due to the relatively low power of your amp, your music tastes, etc... you want something fairly efficient. That points to a vented box or bandpass. Either is probably OK, since you have upgraded your front speakers to something that already has decent mid-bass capability. These enclosures are a little more difficult to build, esp. if your space is limited. I'd have recommended a center console sub, but you already have a center console so that's out.

So, if you went custom, the biggest vented box you could fit in that corner is what I'd lean toward. There are several drivers in the 6.5" range you could use, it's possible you could fit a small 8" back there too.

You could probably fit a couple of these bad boys in a vented box back there:

http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/car/utopia/5ws.htm

but that'd blow your budget big time.

Given your constraints, you may be right, the Bazooka is not a bad choice. Take a look at the Subsolutions one too.

Man, why is it that one of the largest vehicles I've worked on seems to be the hardest to design too? Damn... we are all just too practical minded! We should all just throw 10 ft^3 of subs in the back and call it done!


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-Shin John
'01 DEP EX, and I'm workin' on it! (slowly)

[This message has been edited by shinjohn (edited 03-01-2002).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ken W:
I'm sure I can fit the 6.5 in the ody's front door.
</font>
Be carefull here. I've installed lots of MB 6.5s and they are not only deep, but have a big circumference (they follow european standards). Haven't tried the Ody though, but think it would be very tight if it did fit, and may need to do some significant mod work and spacer/trim ring building.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Shin John. Thanks for all of your thorough advice. The reason I was talking components in back was that people and stuff block the highs from their current location. Also, the fronts are already component with a tweeter in the dash, right? Is there a crossover in the factory system because I don't hear much sound coming from those tweets?
</font>
Do you really want to be able to hear highs from the rear? My personal take is that music is best when it's just 2 channel (unless you are talking about surround sound though) Most people who go for "more realistic" sound in a car use rear speakers in a "rear fill" capacity. They are used more as mid-down drivers at a level usually -10dB to just provide some ambience (barely audible). But, if you want your rear passengers to have their own "sound stage" that's a differnt story. In either case, you wouldn't want tweeters back there pointing at the front passengers. For the front listeners, the sound stage should be forward, and as centered as possible. Make sense?

In this light I recommend just putting some coaxes back there, and it works fine. Rear passengers get good highs back there, and you don't get to hear it up front.. as it should be. But again, this is just one man's opinion. If you like it another way, that's cool, go for it.

There is a tweeter in the dash in EXs, yes. The crossover is mounted to the tweeter itself (just a simple cap). The acutal wires are just parallel of the head unit to WRT the door speakers. In the stock setup, full range goes to the doors too. I had a long, long winded discussion on tweeters in a previous thread, can't find it now. Suffice to say I unplugged mine and have (fairly nice) coaxes in the doors.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
What I meant by an amp that "Plugs in" was just the factory harnass for the speakers. I would run a dedicated cable from the fuse box for power (IGN).
</font>
Make sure you run it to constant 12V, directly to the battery. You don't want the power lead to an amp switching on an off. That's the function of the remote turn on. In regards to the harness, the haed unit harness gives you access to the factory speaker wiring behind the radio and there are adaptors to use the factory wiring in the doors with aftermarket speakers with no wire cutting/splicing. If you go aftermarket amp, you could also just run your own speaker cables, but that is more work.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I plan on doing the speakers first. I'm willing to spend 200 for the front pair. Then $150 for the rear and maybe $200 or less for the amp. It all depends on how much improvement it is. My main beef with stock is muddyness. I've spoiled myself with the crystal clear zero distortion seamless low-mid-hi response of the gonzo home sytem (Sony ES, MB Quart, Klipsh KSW-10). Maybe I'll get that power inverter and stick it all in the van. Including the couch, because that's where I'm sleeping when Mrs. W finds out.
</font>
Advice: spend more fronts, maybe $250-$300 (stretch it), spend <$100 on rear, my take. You'll be happier. Or just don't do the rears and switch the head and front speakers. You'll probably be happier that way since you have a decent setup at home. Then your upgrade path is better in terms of adding amps for both better power AND fidelity (pre-out signal tends to be cleaner, quieter)
subs, whatever else you want.

(Edit: nix the head unit swap, that's right, you have the OEM changer already.....)

Then again, maybe just ignore me since I'm nuts, and I'll probably get you in trouble with your wife!


p.s.- if you have MB at home, chances are that's what you'll really like in the car.

------------------
-Shin John
'01 DEP EX, and I'm workin' on it! (slowly)

[This message has been edited by shinjohn (edited 03-01-2002).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PlayItLoud:

Hope this help. There are a lot of brands to try and test but its just like food some people like sushi some don't.
</font>
Boy I love sushi! Doesn't everyone?


------------------
-Shin John
'01 DEP EX, and I'm workin' on it! (slowly)

[This message has been edited by shinjohn (edited 03-01-2002).]
 

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Thanks for the recommendations and advice. But all I want to do is assist the rear audio with a little more bass. I'm not going for competition performance - just decent performance.


I'm still leaning towards a simple Bazooka really. Particularly the EL804 and RS604DV. Both handle similar wattage, same price too. But one is 6" and one is 8". Do you think the size difference will matter much (for bass that is
). And the real advantage of the 6" is the smaller size. I wonder if an 8" will interfere with the magic seat?

-Nestor


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HOMER'S ODYSSEY
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nemogira:
I wonder if an 8" will interfere with the magic seat?

-Nestor

</font>
An 8" will not fit back there, unless you can modify the paneling back there or something. If you want it to fit stock, the only option there is the 6".

But then again, I'm talking to mod king, right? I'd bet if you put your mind to it, you'd fit a 10" back there!


BTW, the diff b/w the 6" and 8" will be pretty significant.
------------------
-Shin John
'01 DEP EX, and I'm workin' on it! (slowly)

[This message has been edited by shinjohn (edited 03-01-2002).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nemogira:

Do you think the size difference will matter much (for bass that is
). And the real advantage of the 6" is the smaller size. I wonder if an 8" will interfere with the magic seat?

-Nestor

</font>
Yo,my fellow Pinoy,

I'm offering to bring my "8 Bazooka (if I can open the hatch in my car!) to the meet so you can try it out.
Let me know so I can start cutting my hatch out(just kidding!).

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-ROB-
'01 GG LX "Lagreat"(with lotsa stuff.S-T-U-F-F)

http://community.webshots.com/album/18601743AkjQIJiKqK
 
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