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Discussion Starter #1
Per my prior post, I'm trying to fix a slight drag issue. Today is brakes day.

I've pulled all the caliper pins to clean and relubricate with sil-glyde. On the front brakes the TOP caliper pin has a little rubber thing at the end you insert. The bottom pin is all metal.

On the back brakes its reversed. The rubber stopper is on the bottom one. The top has nothing.

I have 2 questions. First, is anyone able to confirm that is the correct way they should be in?

And second, the pins with the rubber stopper seem far less movable, even with fresh lubricant on them. What is the purpose of the rubber stopper??

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Follow up post. I found the top pin completely stuck on the right right brakes.

For the life of me I cannot get it out - though I am optimistic this may be related to the dragging issue.

Any tips on getting this pin out? Or should I consider buying a new bracket?
 

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Follow up post. I found the top pin completely stuck on the right right brakes.

For the life of me I cannot get it out - though I am optimistic this may be related to the dragging issue.

Any tips on getting this pin out? Or should I consider buying a new bracket?
Put the bracket in a vice and clamp the pin with a vice grips and turn until it frees up. The same thing happened on my Accord and it took maybe 20-30 minutes to free and clean it up. Also, can you post pictures of the rubber pieces you're talking about? All of the pins are supposed to have boots, if they don't they should be installed as these keep the dirt from drying up the grease. Most parts stores should carry the boots as part of a hardware kit

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Discussion Starter #4
Put the bracket in a vice and clamp the pin with a vice grips and turn until it frees up. The same thing happened on my Accord and it took maybe 20-30 minutes to free and clean it up. Also, can you post pictures of the rubber pieces you're talking about? All of the pins are supposed to have boots, if they don't they should be installed as these keep the dirt from drying up the grease. Most parts stores should carry the boots as part of a hardware kit

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Your tip plus a little hammering got the pin out. Covered in rust. Cleaned it up and ordered a new one. I'll use this one for now, then replace later.

For the rubber part, I'm not talking about the little boot thing. But rather the TIP of the pin. For every caliper it seems like one of those has a rubber bit at the tip, and one doesn't. I'm curious which goes on top and why they are on there.

Here's an online image similar to it:
151807


In my front brakes the one with the rubber tip was the top pin. But that was reversed in the back brakes - where the rubber tip pin was on the bottom.
 

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On my 2011, the bottom pins had those rubber boots for the front brakes. I didn't do the rear brakes.
 

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It’s a rubber seal to help retain lube at end of pin. I replace the pins as needed and you can actually order just the little rubber seal if needed. My pins were fine but over time that rubber part swells and can bind worst case or break while trying to reinstall. Good idea to replace the pin seal and that small rubber seal after the second brake job. I can get about two sets of pads before they degrade.
Carlson Quality Brake Parts 16140 Caliper Pin Boot Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q0AXN8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0ZunDb4WMVJAH

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It’s a rubber seal to help retain lube at end of pin.
Not arguing, just discussing.:)

If the bushing is there to retain lube at the end of the pin, why don't all the pins have the bushing, not just 1 on each caliper?

I was told by 2 different mechanics (one Honda dealer tech and one former Honda dealer tech who went indy) that the bushings are used for noise suppression. Again, why only 1 of the 2 pins on each caliper requires noise suppression is a mystery to me and to the 2 mechanics that I talked to. I'm sure there's some serious physics involved. :confused:

I replace the pins as needed and you can actually order just the little rubber seal if needed. My pins were fine but over time that rubber part swells and can bind worst case or break while trying to reinstall. Good idea to replace the pin seal and that small rubber seal after the second brake job. I can get about two sets of pads before they degrade.
Both mechanics said that when doing brakes on a customer's vehicle, they use/replace the bushings. Too much liability otherwise. However, they also both admitted that they have left them off of their own and family's/friend's car to no detrimental effect. As you said, if they swell and bind, they can prevent the pin from sliding. Once the pins stop sliding, they begin to rust. If they rust enough, you have the exact issue that the OP had: you can't get them out without a hammer. (Not to mention the pads that died early or the rotors that may have been destroyed.)

In addition, they both said that they have experienced the same thing that I have: The bushing sometimes hold air in the cylinder and will prevent the pin from staying fully in the cylinder. Push it in, it slides back out and stretches the boot, push it in, it slides back out and stretches the boot. No amount "boot bleeding" will let the air out because it's trapped in front of the bushing.

The first time that happened to me one of those mechanics (a neighbor) came over and said "Either try replacing the bushing or just take it off." Since no local store had the bushings in stock, I took them off and the pins slid in and stayed in. There was no noise and there was no rust the next time I did the brakes.

Disclaimer: I am not recommending that anyone ignore all the research that the engineers did before they decided that some pins need bushings and others don't. That's up to each individual to decide on their own.
 

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A silicone lube on the pins will not swell the bushings. They don't necessarily need to be replaced, but should be removed, cleaned and lubed with each brake job.
 

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The rubber o-ring type bushings are just for noise to reduce clunking. My 08 has them and I still get brake caliper clunking at low speeds going over bumps--ever since it was brand new.

Using the wrong grease will swell and damage them. As mentioned, using silicone grease (Syl-Glide) is the best grease to use. If you got the old pin out and cleaned it up then there's no need to replace the pin. It'll be fine. Just lube it up good all the way to where the boot sits.

I have removed those rubber bushings before with no ill-effects. If you can get replacements then go for it. If not, remove them and move on with life.
 

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The rubber o-ring type bushings are just for noise to reduce clunking. My 08 has them and I still get brake caliper clunking at low speeds going over bumps--ever since it was brand new.

Using the wrong grease will swell and damage them. As mentioned, using silicone grease (Syl-Glide) is the best grease to use. If you got the old pin out and cleaned it up then there's no need to replace the pin. It'll be fine. Just lube it up good all the way to where the boot sits.

I have removed those rubber bushings before with no ill-effects. If you can get replacements then go for it. If not, remove them and move on with life.
I've always gotten replacements in hardware kits, idk about for Odyssey, but for other cars

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Some kits will come with them but most of the time I've found they aren't included.
 

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I'm confident in my reasoning, but I have no evidence from Honda or other manufacturers to prove this. If it matters I am an engineer, but caveat emptor - an electrical one:

The location of the rubber component is to keep the brake pad from toeing into the rotation of the rotor when applied. The front brakes are in front of the rotor, so the top pin has the rubber which has more resistance, which allows the more-free-moving bottom (heel in this case) to contact first. Reverse is true on the rears, as the brakes are back of the rotor

This prevents chatter when brakes are applied. The same principle is used when setting brake pads on bicycle calipers, in this case both are mounted on top and so the pads are set toe in slightly so that the heels don't grip first.
 

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"The location of the rubber component is to keep the brake pad from toeing into the rotation of the rotor when applied." "This prevents chatter when brakes are applied."

EXCELLENT INFORMATION! Very helpful! Thanks for posting.
 

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No rubber seal will prevent the caliper from rotating! As John said they attempt to reduce noise. I believe it’s to trap grease so that there is a hydraulic effect as the pin is stressed under braking. Keep that film of lube in place to reduce noise.

I’ve run them without the seals as well and noticed little difference. I’m sure the engineers did a through study to justify the cost of a custom pin and seal. Likely to cover an extreme use case no doubt. 95% of us likely will never operate the brakes in the scenario that justified the design change!


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I'm confident in my reasoning, but I have no evidence from Honda or other manufacturers to prove this. If it matters I am an engineer, but caveat emptor - an electrical one:

The location of the rubber component is to keep the brake pad from toeing into the rotation of the rotor when applied. The front brakes are in front of the rotor, so the top pin has the rubber which has more resistance, which allows the more-free-moving bottom (heel in this case) to contact first. Reverse is true on the rears, as the brakes are back of the rotor

This prevents chatter when brakes are applied. The same principle is used when setting brake pads on bicycle calipers, in this case both are mounted on top and so the pads are set toe in slightly so that the heels don't grip first.
Wait what? The rubber is for reducing noise...I don't think it prevents toeing or whatever.
 

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Wait what? The rubber is for reducing noise...I don't think it prevents toeing or whatever.
I agree that its purpose is to reduce vibrational noise. What I'm arguing is that the rubber location (top vs bottom) is chosen for an additional reason that reduces the possibility of the leading pad edge making contact first, which would cause chatter/noise; same reason brake pad manufacturers put a chamfer on the pads.
 
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