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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi Odylovers!

I'm not sure if its allowed to open a new thread just so i can mark my progress with my repairs. of course, I;m also doing this so others may benefit from what i've learned and gone thru (even if its just one of the many).

My 04 Ody got the dreaded P0740 CEL last month and I've been researching for a cure since then. I found this wonderful forum and have been kinda hooked to it since. Lot of real good info here.

background: we bought our Ody thru Craigslist a year ago (2009). it seemed like a good deal. it was clean, almost everything worked. its a EX, for a real good price. i checked online for any TSB or issues and verified that the work has already been done.
mainly this was the oil jet to 2nd gear (i think). We had all the fluids replaced and engine tuned up. there were a few minor issues but nothing that hampered it from running. issues like - idle up and down, dead clock light, bald tires, transmission whine during acceleration, ok sound system, battery dying all the time (we found out that we left the interior lights on at night -duh). but overall, we really loved the way it drives, the fold down back seat. plus its the most comfiest vehicle we have. :)

Starting off: December 2010, My wife reports to me that the CEL and TCS light came on and that while she was getting on the fwy, the engine revved up high before it engaged 3rd gear. it actually did it a few time on the way home. When she arrived, i used my scanguage to check, P0740. I never heard of that before so i started googling and was brought here to OdyClub.com.

I read and... Drats! its worse than i thought. she went to get it checked and the verdict was, change of electronics, reprogramming to the tune of $1.5K! Since i was in the middle of fixing my new old truck. its just something that would have to wait for later. so we parked the Ody for a while.

But I was not satisfied with that verdict. I just kept researching, spending near sleepless nights reading all I can about this issue.

a lot of reading later, I stumbled on one thread here that mentioned about someone cleaning their solenoids. Jofei I believe. (check the forum subject Honda Transmission Problem Root Cause and a Fix??)

I did more research since his we didnt have the same tranny, I then went ahead and bought the parts. i got the 3 pipes, the o rings, the long pipe, the paper gasket, and the rubber gasket for solenoid C.

Time came to do the work and i found out that the pipes was mostly clean cept for very little debris in the middle pipe. (took me 3 hours to figure out how to open it) I didnt even have to change the gasket since it was intact. I did find that the ATF was dark and dirty red. (its only been a year and 10k mi) I didnt get to open the other solenoid tho since i ran out of time.

at this time, I read somewhere that a flush would help. since i thought the system was clean enough, i had a mechanic do a flush with Honda ATFZ1. he did it with a machine even tho i said not to. (dont do it!) but i wasnt there so it happened.

The Flush actually helped! it doesnt rev high anymore and the more we use it the, the less slipping it does, i still have the P0740 even if i reset the ECU. (it seems that the old burned, varnish on the clutch goes away little by little with the new ATF with use.)

I still dont use it much and i kept reading, saw this thread (Easy Transmission FIX - Pressure Switches) I read thru it and also read the thread it indicated in Acurazine forums. I think that the guys in that other forum seemed to have stumbled on something conclusive. ATFZ1 is not a good ATF for our Ody nor their Acura. hahaha. that was funny.

I think IHC has a point about the pressure switches wearing out over time. its a moving part. so i now plan to track my Miles and change it every 50k mi. or so.

They also have a point about not using ATFZ1. They theorize that it has too much Friction Modifiers (FM) and made it too slippery. Theory goes like ( ATF too slippery, clutch slips, creates heat, burns the ATF, make clutch slip more, vicious cycle) They experimented with RedLine Racing ATF since it suppose to not have any FM. so far, most people reports success with their tranny after changing to redline and the pressure switches. (up to 12K+ now) so i planned to do the switch also.

During the Searches, i also came across a very helpful PDF named (Clutch_Pressure_Solenoid_Valve.pdf) i dont remember (someone help me) where i got it but it detailed how to clean the solenoids A B & C. Another one is Mel's (ATF-CoolerInstallationNotes.pdf) since i plan to add a cooler.

So I went ahead and bought the 2 pressure switches and a couple of solenoids just in case. I also got the TruCool LPD 4543 cooler (e bay)( should been a 4544) and a couple of the mysterious OEM ATF Filter (Rock Auto). got the Redline Lightweight and the Racing ATF (RPW) I plan to mix to custom viscosity so i got them both.

Today (1/22/11) I finished cleaning Solenoid A, B (again) and C, changed the ATF filter and the Pressure Switches.
A&B was clean, I didnt clean it then but now its pretty clean. the flush did some good.
Solenoid C gasket/screen was clogged real bad with debris. I just changed the whole screen gasket.
I changed the ATF Filter too. It was dripping dark Red ATF even tho the new ATF isnt even 100mi old yet. the ATF itself is pretty clean and red.
I changed the switches, it didnt look bad to me but since i didnt know how old it is, i just went ahead with it.
Since i was down there with the switches, i also noticed that the tranny/engine mount was cracked :(. gotta change that some time too...

I wasnt able to do a test drive yet coz i had the bumper off to add the cooler and magnefine. I started it up to check for leaks. had it up to operating temp for 10mins. and shifted it between R and D a few times and the nice part so far was it didnt Clunk into gear anymore. I havent changed the ATF yet. I will add the cooler first. then do a test drive tommorow.

I did notice another issue that while i had it partly uncovered. when i first started the idle was going up and down. while it did that. I hear a tick from a couple of the ignition coil area. also there was some sucking/vacuum noise from the manifold area that would pause in time with the tick.
I wasnt able to investigate but will follow up later.
 

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start saving your money for a rebuild! Lots of folks prolong the inevitible with screen cleanings, fluid changes, etc, but in the end, the reason it's acting up is because the 3rd gear friction material is gone. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #3
wadechamberlain said:
start saving your money for a rebuild! Lots of folks prolong the inevitible with screen cleanings, fluid changes, etc, but in the end, the reason it's acting up is because the 3rd gear friction material is gone. :(
Hi Wade,

Thank You. Yes, I know what you mean. It is inevitable. but for the meantime, i hope this action will help me get 10k or more mi before i have to.

I believe the key to be the Racing ATF. of course I will find out in due time if it is or not.

CK
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I feel beat up but pretty happy.
I installed the TruCool LPD 4543 cooler today with the magnefine, took me longer than expected since i had to hunt for parts and tools. I hooked up the Cooler using a Aluminum square bar and mounted it using the existing bolts of the A/C Condenser. I'm pretty happy it seems to work well :) its a 3 point mount and it seems solid.

hooking up the hoses went well. i tested for leaks afterwards and found none so i went ahead with the drain and fill. The Drain plug was full of crud and spiky metal filings. i cleaned that off and plugged it back in, but when i pulled it out. it had more of the same. I thought of flushing it first with ordinary ATF but i was running out of time so i just went ahead and poured in the Redline Racing ATF. I also tried the cooler line method but i stopped after 8 quarts since i couldnt tell when i am suppose to stop.

I took it out for a test drive afterwards and here is my subjective report so far.

Naturally the PCM/ECU was reset because i had to take out the battery. at first, engine idle was going up and down and the Tranny was shifting a bit hard. 1-2 would would throw me a bit forward when it shifts. same with 2-3. 3-4 was kinda ok. 4-5 was imperceptible. after a few miles it smoothed out. 30mi later. 1-2 was ... normal, so was 2-3 and 3-4... .. i guess i'll have to take a few days before i have something more definitive.

The good thing is, so far no CEL. keeping my fingers crossed it stays that way. Will report back after a few days.

CK
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Update:

I had my wife drive the Van, She drives it mostly anyways. She mentioned that it seems to have more power now and that the Van is more responsive when she accelerates. Thats something i didnt feel but i dont drive it that much to know. 40 mi now and no CEL. yesssss!

CK
 

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Great news!

CK,

This is great news! Anything to prolong the life of the transmission.

Beside the P0740, are there any other symptoms like transmission whine or similar?

I'm just thinking aloud here... Mine is a 02 EX. There is no CEL but the transmission started whining about couple of months ago, at first on first gear, now all the time. I'm wondering if mine is going out too...

It's interesting folks experiment w Redline racing ATF which is essentially a type F fluid. I wonder if we should try stuff like Vavoline type F which is a cheaper alternative. I guess the viscocity and lack of friction modifier are the things we're after...

I just change the ATF (Z1), filter and pipes. The whining is still there...I'm thinking about trying type F fluid.

Thanks for sharing your results.


Duc
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Great news!

hoxuanduc said:

Beside the P0740, are there any other symptoms like transmission whine or similar?

I'm just thinking aloud here... Mine is a 02 EX. There is no CEL but the transmission started whining about couple of months ago, at first on first gear, now all the time. I'm wondering if mine is going out too...
My Tranny whines under acceleration. I was hoping it would go away with the Racing ATF but it didnt altho its not as noisy as it was before so far.


It's interesting folks experiment w Redline racing ATF which is essentially a type F fluid. I wonder if we should try stuff like Vavoline type F which is a cheaper alternative. I guess the viscocity and lack of friction modifier are the things we're after...

Its funny that you mention that. below is the product blurb that i found with the Valvoline Type F.

* Provides excellent resistance against clutch slippage for extended transmission life
* Provides excellent resistance to fluid oxidation/breakdown at high temperatures


I couldnt tell if its a Synthetic or not. IMHO, Redline so far has been proven with Acuras with no issues, plus it supposedly has a better base oil. Would you know what Valvoline Type F uses? let us know what you find out.

also let us know your progress if you went ahead with that. and remember to reset the ECU when you change your fluid.

CK
 

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CK,

I don't think valvoline type F is synthetic. Otherwise it would have been marketed as such. They say Maxlife is synthetic.

I'll try it when the weather gets warmer and report the result.

Thanks,

Duc
 

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The whine is the tq converter going bad. Luckily since you've changed the fluid and added a cooler you might be able to just hang onto what you've got for a while longer. Mine has been whining for roughly 50k using Amsoil ATF with no problems to report.

Change out that fluid every 10-20k till its clean and then just do every 20k.
 

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Nice post. Trying this on mine this weekend. Hoping to squeeze a year or so out of it before biting the bullet on a rebuilt trans. At worst it does nothing and I am out an afternoon. :stupid:
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Please correct me if i am mistaken. Also take this with a grain of salt.

From what i understood. Redline (according to the thread in acura zine) uses the same base for the D4 and Racing ATF. I'll conjecture that they also use the same with their lightweight.

Assuming such and assuming you can mix directly to a certain viscocity. here is a matrix i excel-led so i know what i want to mix with. in my case, i used 6 racing and 2 lightweight ATFs. + the existing Z1 in my Tranny.

formula wise, thats (in qts)
(6*10+2*4.49+1*7)/9= 8.4422 Final Viscocity @100C. more or less...

Matrix attached below...

Today I drove it to work, two things stood out to me.

One was the shifting, it was pretty short and sweet. not jerky. felt like i was driving a sports car.

hoping i make sense, it sounds like this when i accelerate...
before: rrrrmmm, pause. rrrrmmm, pause, rrrmmmm
now : rrrrmmmm, rrrrmmm,rrrmmm...

second is, i dont hear the tranny clunk into gear anymore. i think i said this before but i'm delighted with this part. real smooth now.. :D

70mi and no CEL! yess!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
gregersonke said:
The whine is the tq converter going bad. Luckily since you've changed the fluid and added a cooler you might be able to just hang onto what you've got for a while longer. Mine has been whining for roughly 50k using Amsoil ATF with no problems to report.

Change out that fluid every 10-20k till its clean and then just do every 20k.
Hi Grengersonke!

Yes I planned a more aggressive fluid change schedule. depends on what i find on the first 3K mi.

I've tried searching for that whine but i couldnt pinpoint a thread that said why it would whine. most whine related threads are either the power steering or the brakes. if you know the source of this knowledge, please kindly point me to the right thread. I'm hoping in the meantime that the whine is just the TC having a "whistling" jet for lack of a better term.

If the TC did go out, is there a recommended one that i can get that will never whine ever? :) I saw one at Level10 ($500++) but i'm hoping that it wont ever come to that.

CK
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
mjody said:
Nice post. Trying this on mine this weekend. Hoping to squeeze a year or so out of it before biting the bullet on a rebuilt trans. At worst it does nothing and I am out an afternoon. :stupid:
Thank You Mjody. :)

If you have the same 02-04 as i do.
*edit* duh, just saw your sig. you have two! :D
I think this applies to the 00 you have also.

I think it really depends on
1. how gone the 3rd clutch is.
2. how badly contaminated the system is. (but this can be cleaned over time with the magnefine and a new filter.) and checking the screens once in a while.

I'm really hoping mine is not too bad. on #1. altho there was a lot of #2.

also, hoping that Redline was correct that their Type F wont harm clutches.


keeping my fingers crossed and Hoping to drive it for another 100k mi. :stupid:

CK
 

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Discussion Starter #14
hoxuanduc said:
I don't think valvoline type F is synthetic. Otherwise it would have been marketed as such. They say Maxlife is synthetic.

I'll try it when the weather gets warmer and report the result.
If you want to learn more about the Type F. in the meantime, please check out the thread over at acura zine...

http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=764322&highlight=flush+transmission

and here if you want to learn about the pressure switches. altho i think its not as important as the ATF itself.

http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721508

I found it quite informative. I do understand that there was not much science involve as OF pointed out. which is why I decided to be the guinea pig. :D

Good Luck!

CK
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
My Tranny whines under acceleration. I was hoping it would go away with the Racing ATF but it didnt altho its not as noisy as it was before so far.
Update:

150 mi so far, so good.

regarding Transmission whine under acceleration, I have to take it back and say that its as loud as it was before. One thing tho is that its not as noisy during the cold mornings but is as loud once the ATF has heated up.

Shifting into R or D is still very good. The Pause - Clunk shift delay is gone. I attribute that to the new AT Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid gasket/screen. I checked the FSM to verify if that is the case, and it checks out.

Plan to work on the rear vent window motors this weekend.

CK
 

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Did not work for me. :(
Cleaned the screens and tubes, plugged solid. Did not change any pressure switches mind you. Fluid drain and fill. Shifts much better but still clunks and bangs a bit. Flares in 1st gear cold, a bit better warm. Only out $20 for ATF and 3 hours time.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Did not work for me. :(
Cleaned the screens and tubes, plugged solid. Did not change any pressure switches mind you. Fluid drain and fill. Shifts much better but still clunks and bangs a bit. Flares in 1st gear cold, a bit better warm. Only out $20 for ATF and 3 hours time.
Hi Mjody,

I am sorry to hear that, despite it, would you mind if ask for more details?

What ATF did you use? what its viscocity? The racing ATF i used has a Viscocity higher than Z's 71. its rated 10 @ 100C./212F. When i poured it in, i can tell its much thicker than the lightweight Racing ATF, which is more like water.

and which screens did you clean?

Sincerely,
CK
 

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The reason the screens are blocked is because the clutches are erroding and only a rebuild can fix that.
 

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Just went thru all this with my 02. Honda replaced my tranny at 18k back in 03', that new one lasted another 180k. We're at 200k now. Did all the work on the ABC, actually replaced them and the new fluid etc actually accelerated the demise of the tranny. Now it just revs and sometimes goes to clutch.
I just bought remanufactured tranny from RAMI in NY. He's on Ebay for $1235.00. He gives you all the gaskets, brand new TQ converter and a new screw in filter. You have to reuse the solenoids and pipes. I live in Atlantic City, so I drove up there to avoid the $300 core charge and he gave me a full mini class on how to replace it.
Definitely not promoting this guy, but I hate to see people spend needless money on things, like solenoids and sensors. He also said, don't mess with any other fluid but Honda, kind of funny coming from an after market guy, all the more reason not to temp fate.
I'll keep you posted, installing it Monday.
 

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Does anyone have a full tranny replacement thread with pictures, that would really be helpful. If not, maybe I'll do it. Gonna use the sefl help center on base.
 
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