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Replacement of the Axle and CV Joints

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48K views 36 replies 18 participants last post by  OdyinNH  
F
#1 ·
There are several good threads regarding this and a couple of good youtube videos on 2nd Gen Odyssey's for this replacement so I'm gearing up to tackle this myself.

It honestly doesn't look much more difficult than changing a tire. Seperating the ball joint and getting the leverage to pull the axle out of the transmission appear to be the two most difficult parts. I wanted to provide a quick list below to see if I'm missing anything (often times those youtube videos, via editing, can leave out some important parts).

Put the car in Park, engage the E-brake, and chock the tires.
Raise the car, use jack stands (because I'm not cool enough to have my own lift), remove the wheel, brake rotor, and support the brake caliper out of the way. Also disconnect and move the speed sensor out of the way.
Remove the dent in the axle nut and using the strength of Thor, remove the nut.
This gets a bit muddy here but I believe I remove the bolts to the lower wishbone and release the ball joint to allow the knuckle to swing free, then remove the outer axle from the wheel bearing.
Then it is just a matter of pulling/knocking the axle out of the transmission for removal. There is something about some c-clips that I didn't gather. Anyone?
Do you need to grease the inner new axle before inserting into the transmission? What about greasing the outer axle before sliding it into the wheel bearing? Should I replace the wheel bearing too while I'm in there?

Put everything back together.

Our van has 136k miles and the inner boot (driver's side) has started leaking at the edge of the boot (must be a loose clamp or something) and the boot itself looks fine. With that much mileage on the existing axles, and the labor involved to simply repack the joint and such, I would rather spend an extra $100 and have an all new axle. Does that make sense or am I off base here?

Thanks for any input!
 
M
#2 · (Edited)
Don't need to remove abs/speed sensor, its likely frozen in place anyway and you will end up destroying it, if you touch it.
No need to remove brake rotor or caliper.
I believe that all you have to do is to remove outer tie rod from the knuckle. Use tie rod removal tool or bang on the knuckle with a small sledge.
Then swing the knuckle one way and pull the axle another way.

To help release outer cv joint from the hub, bang on it with rubber mallet.
Once you have it out from the outer side, sharp pull with authority and it should pop out of the transmission end.
If it does not release, spin the axle 90 degrees and try again, repeat until it releases.
There is a C-clip on the tip of the axle that goes through transmission end. Here is the pic for you.

You can lube the tranny end with ATF fluid before re-inserting. You can put anti-seize on the outer end before inserting.
I would leave wheel bearing alone, unless its making noise.
Its not a hub bearing, but just a bearing that requires a press to get it out of the knuckle.

You also may want to get a new axle nut to finish the job.
I would consider replacing an axle seal while you are at it though.

Here is what mine looked like when I did the job:

Note that some ATF fluid does come out, so I suggest having a quart of Honda ATF DW1 on hand to replenish.

Good luck,
Max
 
T
#3 ·
Disconnect brake lines and any sensors. You do not want to risk breaking a sensor, they are costly to replace and you can avoid any seized bolts by spraying lightly with PB blaster and letting said bolt sit there for 5-10 min.

You can remove the axle by releasing just the spindle assembly from the strut and using some common sense to shimmy it out.

Yes grease the axle splines on the new axle and the inner splines on the spindle assembly. Don't worry too much about greasing the inner splines on the axle nose that is going into the transmission. If you absolutely feel the need to do it.....use a VERY light coat of ATF fluid....also given the milage if you have not already done it, a ATF fluid change would be a good thing to do in order to keep the transmission in good working order. I recommend against Honda ATF and instead recommend a switch to Valvoline Maxlife ATF.

I haven't seen too many wheel bearing issues on these vans at the given mileage yet so doing that may not be necessary.

NEVER pull on a axle, use proper tool to pop the axle shaft end out of the transmission, typically a pry bar which can be had fairly cheaply is used.....if you feel like NOT spending that money, you may use a large flat tip screwdriver in the same fashion, just be sure not to stab through the lip of the axleshaft seal on the transmission housing.
 
F
#4 ·
maxud,
Yes, I can see where your inner boot really slung the grease around the under carriage. That is the same issue I have as well. Pictures were very helpful.

I'll print this thread so I have both your and TSM_Pickachu's comments when I do this. So far the van drives fine and it is cold here, so I may just wait until April to do this.

Thanks!
 
M
#5 ·
if you are going to replace the axles with new ones, you definitely can wait till the spring to do the job. As you saw in my pic, quiet a bit of grease
came out of the axle by the time I got to it, so judge by comparing how bad your looks compared to mine.

reading TSM's post made me think of couple more things:
As stated already, I did not remove rotor/caliper/abs sensor, but definitely remove brackets holding brake line and abs sensor line to give them
more slack, so when you are moving things around nothing gets broken or stressed.

If you are going to remove knuckle/strut bolts, you may change alignment. I dont recall if Ody has concentric holes there, I did not have do that.

If you are going to be removing axle by using pry bar, screw driver, be EXTREMELY careful where you place it. The transmission housing
is aluminum and easily damaged. Sometimes there are special stand-offs to help the task.
Another pointer is that in my prior experience, if you use two pry bars placed 180 degrees apart, it
will come out without any issues, whereas using just one bar may not work out as well. I remember 2002 Sienna axle that gave me trouble
like that.

If I remember correctly, for this job, it took me longer to clean up all the grease than to replace the axle.

good luck,
Max
 
#6 · (Edited)
Fast Lane: Here are a few technical corrections/suggestions for some of your steps.

Loosen/tighten the spindle nut (axle nut) with a helper applying the brakes or while ODY is on the ground.

It helps to remove the stabilizer link from the damper (shock) -- but if not removed then you can manhandle the damper out of the way. The tie rod is not involved here. Likewise, you do not have to remove brake lines or speed sensor. You do not have to disconnect the damper from the knuckle.

Remove the castellated nut holding the lower control arm ball joint to the knuckle and then separate the ball joint from the control arm using OTC 6297 ball joint separator. The Honda special tool costs a fortune. This is all you have to do in order to move the knuckle out of the way once you have removed the outer joint from the hub. All you have to remove is the stabilizer and the unfasten the ball joint.

Amazon.com: OTC 6297 Ball Joint Separator: Automotive

*PRY* the left shaft from the transmission, being careful not to damage the AT case. Do not pull it out – it will separate.

Stay on the left side and, using a long bar or dowel against the inboard joint of the contra-lateral right shaft, *TAP* gently and drive the right drive shaft out from the intermediate shaft. If you encounter difficulty, you may have to remove the intermediate shaft. Again, do not pull it out.

The inner joints are held in the transmission by circlips called “set rings” by Honda (not snap rings) which are set in grooves in the shafts. They are similar to the circlips that retain piston pins. They compress slightly in the grooves in order to allow removal and this is what you must overcome in order to remove them from the AT and intermediate shaft. The left inner joint is male-end and the right inner joint is female-end.

Orient Express - JE Pistons - Wrist Pin Circlip


I would recommend against grease on the inner male left splines -- it will contaminate your ATF. Shop manual says to thoroughly clean the splines with carb cleaner and insert into AT – splines will be lubed by the ATF.

As for the inner female right splines, Honda recommends about one gram of “specified” grease and then removing the grease from the splines at interval of 2 to 3 splines *AND FROM THE SET RING GROVE* in order that air can bleed from the intermediate shaft. I figure the specified grease may be Honda’s high-temp Urea grease – google search says it is for splines. http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Honda...=8-3&keywords=spline+grease&pebp=1422145957809&peasin=B00BFDFYKW#productDetails
 
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J
#8 ·
Swapped out mine today on my '06 with 225k miles. Mine also had slung out copious amounts of grease from the inboard joints. I didn't have to disconnect the stabilizer links only the lower ball joints and no special tool just some whacks on the taper while applying downward force on the lower control arm.
The reason I replaced the halfshafts was because I was getting a weird vibration only under acceleration/steady cruise with throttle above 60mph. It was very bizarre in that it would shake so bad but if you put in neutral it was smooth as glass. All is well now :)
 
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#10 ·
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G
#11 · (Edited)
I just completed this project today. I replaced both axles on my '03 with 150k miles. A link I found extremely helpful:

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/24-1999-2004-odyssey/107907-diy-axle-half-shaft-replacement-guide.html

Also search YouTube for some helpful videos.

There are a couple ways to do this job. I chose to separate the ball joint from the lower control arm method (in lieu of strut bolt removal). You can also get a ball joint separator tool at Harbor freight for less than half the cost of the OTC tool. The above link also references a cap from Honda to out on the ball joint stud to prevent damage. It's extremely overpriced at $30, but I bit the bullet and bought one.

If you have an air gun, don't waste time punching the dent out of the axle nut. The air gun will make easy work of removal. The separator tool and cap worked like a charm and popped the ball joints out with minimal effort from my air gun. From there, the most difficult part was prying the lower arms and shafts. My passenger side axle required some convincing with a few whacks on the pry bar with a rubber mallet. The driver side pried out pretty easily.

Installing the new axles required a couple shoves while holding with both hands on the inner end of the shaft. Once seated in the transmission (or half shaft), just have to pry the control arms back down for clearance over the ball joint.

It wasn't a bad job. Only takes a couple hours of your time if you go slowly. Saved myself a ton of money doing it myself. So much so, I went with OEM axles from Majestic Honda rather than the local parts stores. I suppose I could have saved a couple hundred more using the non OEM parts, but it's worth the peace of mind to me.

Good luck in your endeavor!
 
#12 ·
While I was changing the front brake pads this past weekend I noticed that there was a lot of grease flung out of the inner CV joint on the left/driver side. There seems to be a fair amount of play on the axle too. That inner CV joint is probably bone dry. I think I probably found the source of the vibration when accelerating at highway speeds and it's time for a new axle assembly. Passenger side CV joints seem OK.

Looking around at parts the Honda OEM is about $150 + shipping. Local parts stores have a new (not remanufactured) axle assembly for $80 with lifetime warranty. Any recommendations? Are the non-Honda axles utter crap?

2006 EX 85k miles
 
S
#13 ·
I have the same question about Honda OEM vs non Honda axles, though am in the 1999-2004 Ody generation. My drivers side inner CV is leaking grease.
Also when the car is on jacks and I rotate the axle it moves maybe 35 degrees each way with a click sound coming from the transmission. Is that normal? I didn't really test for play in the axle up and down.
2001 Ody 165K
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the info. I'm going with the OEM parts online, total with shipping is $180.
For reference:

44306-SHJ-A01 axle assembly left, $145
91205-P0X-005 oil seal $11
90305-S3V-A11 spindle nut $4
44319-S0X-A01 set ring (maybe not needed?) $5

Is replacing the oil seal a typically done when replacing the axle? It's not leaking now, but it seems like a good idea to replace when the axle is out. Anything special I need to know to pull out the seal and tap the new one in?
 
Y
#16 ·
Jamieson said:
Is replacing the oil seal a typically done when replacing the axle? It's not leaking now, but it seems like a good idea to replace when the axle is out. Anything special I need to know to pull out the seal and tap the new one in?
Click to expand...
I have the same question.


I replaced my axles a couple weeks ago. One new aftermarket Driver Side, and one Re manufactured on the Passenger Side (the aftermarket one PS had some sloppy tolerances so i got the reman)

I now have less underload shake at 60-85 but i still have some. Should i get OEM axles to get it to zero under load high speed shake? (dealler cost OEM was more money than i had at the time $580)

I'm not sure if the motor mounts could be responsible for the last bit of under load high speed shake or the after market axles are. I don't know how to determine if the motor mounts are worn ?
 
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O
#17 ·
Anything special I need to know to pull out the seal and tap the new one in?
Click to expand...
You probably want to buy a seal puller as prying the old seal out with a screw driver is not a good idea. If you scratch the metal surface you may end up having a leak even with the new seal. Otherwise you can just push back the new seal using your thumb.

Lisle 58430 - Shaft Type Seal Puller | O'Reilly Auto Parts

The new OEM axles should be around $160 each + S&H online. Some forum members have good results with Cardone Select which is about half the price and a direct fit. Most other axles failed miserably.
 
Y
#18 ·
Thank you.
You don't think the motor mounts play a roll in underload vibration. I guess axles are easier to replace than motor mounts, so maybe i should do the OEM axles first to see how that works.
 
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O
#19 ·
Yes, bad mounts can cause vibration (you might want to search the forum). In order to check your rear mount you need to climb under the van and check if it is collapsed or not.

http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/A06-083.PDF

Vibration and steering wheel wobble are different. If your steering wheel moves from side to side it is not likely that the mounts or axles are bad but your tires are out of spec.

You need to get your tires rotated and/or balanced first. The shop can also check if the runout is within spec or not, if not it can cause vibration or wobble that comes and goes.

Our expert member John C. has recently posted a summary:

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/52-20...0-odyssey/284506-steering-wheel-shimmy-after-5-visits-i-m-loss.html#post1701746
 
Y
#20 ·
Thanks for the info.

My vibration is only under load (uphills and acceleration only) down hill or taking my foot off the gas is smooth as glass at all speeds. so that rules out wheels...

I can't tell much by looking at the motor mounts. Don't know what a collapsed mount would look like with out another good mount to reference it too. also the rear motor mount is very hard to get a good look at.

I just bought this 2005 Odyssey a few weeks ago (love it by the way) so it's new to me. But i do have a 2002 and a 2001 2nd gen odysseys which are perfect mechanically. I'm wonder how different the mounts are? Maybe i can reference the 2005 to the 2002 and make a judgement call fro that.
 
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M
#23 ·
If you follow Honda, you are suppose to replace the axle nut. It is staked after final torque. I have done both. If I am replacing the axle
and plan ahead, I buy the new nut. If I am taking suspension apart to replace another component, I typically reuse them.
You will be fine either way.

As far as axle seals. Some do and some don't. I don't, unless its leaking or give an option to replace it.
I suggest going by age and mileage. The higher both are, the more likely I would replace it. If you are doing work yourself, the part is around $10.
Its not exactly trivial to pull the old one out and hammer in new one. You can get it crooked or damage sealing surface.
 
B
#27 ·
After action report here. I replaced both axles this past weekend, with only minor trouble.

My suggestions for others:
1. The passenger side axle was Really Hard to get unseated. I ended up using a six inch plus a three inch 1/4" wobble extensions with a brass hammer to dislodge it. I could not get any leverage/action with any other tool I had available, including several pry bars.
2. In installing the new passenger side axle, I thought it should slide in (toward the center line of the van) more than it did, and was frustrated for about an hour, pulling my hair out. I should have just looked at the grime line on the old axle. The driver's side "goes in" a lot more than the passenger side seems to, to my eye. It was just a foolish mistake which cost me an hour and a lot of aggravation. Hopefully you're smarter and more observant than me.
3. I bought new seals for each axle, on the inboard end of the axle. I felt like the new passenger side axle seal was so loose it was sloppy inside the differential housing, and ended up reusing the original. It appears to just be a dust seal anyway, as I didn't see any diff oil in there. I installed the new seal on the ATF/driver's side, which went in fine and is sealing fine. My van has 190K miles and is a 2005. If yours is old like mine, I recommend replacing at least the driver's side seal which seals the ATF in the transmission. The seal was less than ten bucks at the dealership.

Good luck. It's not a difficult job, and if I had to do it again I could knock it out in half a day.

Cheers,
Russell
 
B
#28 ·
I think I might be experiencing the VERY early signs of the CV joints failing as the vibration I'm experiencing is very minor but fits the description of vibration related to acceleration and at highway speeds. In fact, I'm the only one noticing it unless I point it out to the family. There's no sign of grease leaking from the boots around the CV joints. The only hint I can find is the movement up and down on the shaft. At the tire end, the CV joint seems very tight and does not move up or down but at the transmission end, I can move the shaft ever so slightly, maybe in the order of 1/16 of an inch. This movement is not along the axis of the shaft but up and down or perpendicular to the shaft. So to those who have replaced to shafts, can you recall how much the shaft moved, comparing the old vs the new?

I would probably just wait for the vibration to really show itself and then deal with it then but I have a lengthy 3 week vacation/road trip planned for the summer and I don't want to be dealing with a failed shaft well away from home. I'll be pulling a 18 ft tent trailer too! I guess the 2nd question is then, has anyone heard of a sudden failure of the CV joint? Or will it just come on gradually and I can likely limp my way home if necessary?
 
T
#30 ·
Allow me to tag onto to this with a related question. Is it possible to have a bad CV joint, as evident by a clicking sound when turning, without a CV boot failure? I'm hearing what sounds like a bad CV joint (clicking sound when turning) but the boots seem to be intact.
 
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#31 ·
Yes. IIRC, I had to replace the left hand axle on our 1993 Accord. Clicking CV joint during tight left turns, and the boot was in perfect shape.

OF
 
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T
#33 ·
Thanks John and OF. This is exactly when I hear the clicking - tight turns at low speed. I've already purchased 2 new genuine Honda CV half-shaft axles. Just waiting for an opportunity to take it to my local mechanic to see if he will install them for around $200.
 
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#35 ·
I'm a little late to the game but just like you thscott and OdyinNH, our Odyssey makes the clicking sound on the driver side but when I looked at the boots and axles, they're not greasy at all. I just received the Cardone Select axle today so hopefully replacing soon. I'm going to try the route of unbolting the two strut bolts instead of separating the ball joint and tie rod to replace.
 
#36 ·
First, a loud clicking during tight turns is a bad outer CV joint. They don't have to have been leaking grease but that will accelerate the wear.

Second, I would definitely not waste your time with Cardone Select axles. I would return that and buy new OEM axles. Aftermarkets don't last very long. You can get the OEM's for around $200. It's not worth it when you have to redo the job because the boots are leaking or they tore after only a year.

Third, if you remove the ball joint and tie rod end you won't need an alignment when you're done. If you remove the strut bolts you'll need an alignment. Also, it's much easier to get the axle out, and less possibility of damage to brake lines and ABS sensors, when you disconnect at the ball joint.
 
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