Can anyone tell me which is better to use - Honda brand transmission fluid or Valvoline Maxlife fluid? (Or is there something better?) I want to change my tranny fluid to see if it helps with some weird shifting going on, but I don't want to pay too much if I can help it since I'm planning on selling it soon. Thoughts?
Honda vs. Valvoline Maxlife Tranny Fluid
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dudlet
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I tried to find some Mobil ATF on my last trip to Maine. Found M1 ATF @ 8$ approx at auto parts shops and Mobil Super CND @30$ CND at Canadian Tire, Edmundston, NB. Unable to find the US Mobil Super nor M1 in gallon size.
Went to WM today and bought Valvoline ATF (17$CND). I also bought a quart of Amsoil ATF at Napa, Portland, ME. It seems I'll mix different ATF! Canadian Tire sells QS ATF at 30$. Z1 is something like 7.50$ CND here, so 30$ for a generic non synthetic ATF seems too much.
So far, Valvoline seems to be the best deal since Mobil Super US specs is nowhere to be found. At 10$ approx, Amsoil might be worth it's price while the M1 ATF dosen't seems to have better specs than non-syn ATF.
Went to WM today and bought Valvoline ATF (17$CND). I also bought a quart of Amsoil ATF at Napa, Portland, ME. It seems I'll mix different ATF! Canadian Tire sells QS ATF at 30$. Z1 is something like 7.50$ CND here, so 30$ for a generic non synthetic ATF seems too much.
So far, Valvoline seems to be the best deal since Mobil Super US specs is nowhere to be found. At 10$ approx, Amsoil might be worth it's price while the M1 ATF dosen't seems to have better specs than non-syn ATF.
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You can still get Valvoline at WM?
They just stopped stocking it where I live, and I live a good ways away from the next WM!
Now I'm going to have to get the Castrol MV-ATF....not that it's a bad deal. I mean, it has that JASO-1A spec that you pointed out, Laphroaig, the price is right, and it's a highly reputable brand.
If it's priced right, compatible, works properly, and doesn't leave a big fuzzball of stuff on the ATF drain plug magnet, then I'll use it.
Mobil Super at $30 CND? Hol-eeeee smokes. What is causing this huge price disparity?
I've always had trouble making myself spend more than $4 per quart for ATF, but the solid performance of AmSOil is looking better and better to me each day. And the prices for everything seem to be inching up and up....
OF
They just stopped stocking it where I live, and I live a good ways away from the next WM!
Now I'm going to have to get the Castrol MV-ATF....not that it's a bad deal. I mean, it has that JASO-1A spec that you pointed out, Laphroaig, the price is right, and it's a highly reputable brand.
If it's priced right, compatible, works properly, and doesn't leave a big fuzzball of stuff on the ATF drain plug magnet, then I'll use it.
Mobil Super at $30 CND? Hol-eeeee smokes. What is causing this huge price disparity?
I've always had trouble making myself spend more than $4 per quart for ATF, but the solid performance of AmSOil is looking better and better to me each day. And the prices for everything seem to be inching up and up....
OF
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302 Posts
Mobil Super is 30$ for 5 liters...
And for the Maxlife, I'm not sure if I'm not simply the only one in the last year who bought a 5 liters at my local WM. Should I buy what's left on the shelf, I'm not sure that they would order another batch!
I'm not sure I saw any Valvoline ATF in the WM where I went in ME last week, so you may not find Valvoline ATF at the next WM.
Castrol is pricier for fewer ATF. It cost a little less than buying quarts of Z1 ATF. Not much a deal vs Valvoline ATF.
I too find Amsoil ATF more interesting... but I'll first do the next 3 flushes with cheaper ATF to be sure that all ATF has been changed (bought it used at 108 000 km)
And why Z1 seems to be cheaper here than in the USA and why is M1 22$ at WM in the USA and 42$CND up here?.......
And for the Maxlife, I'm not sure if I'm not simply the only one in the last year who bought a 5 liters at my local WM. Should I buy what's left on the shelf, I'm not sure that they would order another batch!
I'm not sure I saw any Valvoline ATF in the WM where I went in ME last week, so you may not find Valvoline ATF at the next WM.
Castrol is pricier for fewer ATF. It cost a little less than buying quarts of Z1 ATF. Not much a deal vs Valvoline ATF.
I too find Amsoil ATF more interesting... but I'll first do the next 3 flushes with cheaper ATF to be sure that all ATF has been changed (bought it used at 108 000 km)
And why Z1 seems to be cheaper here than in the USA and why is M1 22$ at WM in the USA and 42$CND up here?.......
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Ah, and for the record, I never had any answer from Valvoline while someone at Imperial Oil CND answered my question a few hours after I posted it on the Mobil USA website...
As for the ATF, wouldn'd a claimed smoother shifting sadly mean more clutch slippage? I should investigate my service manual, but where is/are the clutch on a Honda AT?
As for the ATF, wouldn'd a claimed smoother shifting sadly mean more clutch slippage? I should investigate my service manual, but where is/are the clutch on a Honda AT?
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9,924 Posts
You're going to have a SMALL amount of slippage with each engagement. For an answer, "it depends".
No slippage means the plates in the clutch pack are going to bounce and jolt until they firmly engage.
A small amount of slippage means they'll slap together, stay together, but slip just a little while the rotational speeds of the various shafts change as a result of changing the power delivery path in the transmission.
Too much slippage...I believe you're absolutely right. Buttery smooth shifts, but possibly more wear.
It all depends on the friction modifiers in the ATF. That's why I use the Lubegard Black with the MaxLife. It seems to give just the right amount of firmness to each shift. However, I have never used MaxLife without the Lubegard, so I can't give you a good answer on shift quality without the additive.
funfinder4 used MaxLife w/out additives for a number of years while towing his camper each Texas summer (I can tell you that towing a similar camper for only 25 miles while using my 2002 EX with only Honda coolers still gets the ATF way, way hot, even on a cool evening). I mean, even with a Hayden 678 cooler inline with another tube-and-fin cooler, funfinder4 saw 260-deg F (127-deg C for our metric friends) routinely. He would be a good guy to PM and ask about shift quality using straight MaxLife.
OF
P.S:
No slippage means the plates in the clutch pack are going to bounce and jolt until they firmly engage.
A small amount of slippage means they'll slap together, stay together, but slip just a little while the rotational speeds of the various shafts change as a result of changing the power delivery path in the transmission.
Too much slippage...I believe you're absolutely right. Buttery smooth shifts, but possibly more wear.
It all depends on the friction modifiers in the ATF. That's why I use the Lubegard Black with the MaxLife. It seems to give just the right amount of firmness to each shift. However, I have never used MaxLife without the Lubegard, so I can't give you a good answer on shift quality without the additive.
funfinder4 used MaxLife w/out additives for a number of years while towing his camper each Texas summer (I can tell you that towing a similar camper for only 25 miles while using my 2002 EX with only Honda coolers still gets the ATF way, way hot, even on a cool evening). I mean, even with a Hayden 678 cooler inline with another tube-and-fin cooler, funfinder4 saw 260-deg F (127-deg C for our metric friends) routinely. He would be a good guy to PM and ask about shift quality using straight MaxLife.
OF
P.S:
For some reason, I thought $6 per L was high...but there's the exhange rate, and a litre has more volume than a quart...so it's a reasonable price after all.Laphroaig said:
Honda Atf-z1 Or Valvoline Maxlife Atf
Just got the following e-mail (see below) from Valvoline. Send them an e-mail to validate my word, if you wish. They will also will send you a .PDF file (I could not post it because it is not gif, jpeg or jpg) stating using their ATF will not void any warranties and that it meets Honda ATF-Z1 requirements! Also wrote Castrol and they have not responded to date.
We recommend our Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF for use in your Honda Odyssey to meet the Honda ATF Z-1 specifications, and will not void new car warranties.
Attached is a copy of the Valvoline MaxLife Letter letting you know which fluids the MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF is compatible with.
Just got the following e-mail (see below) from Valvoline. Send them an e-mail to validate my word, if you wish. They will also will send you a .PDF file (I could not post it because it is not gif, jpeg or jpg) stating using their ATF will not void any warranties and that it meets Honda ATF-Z1 requirements! Also wrote Castrol and they have not responded to date.
We recommend our Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF for use in your Honda Odyssey to meet the Honda ATF Z-1 specifications, and will not void new car warranties.
Attached is a copy of the Valvoline MaxLife Letter letting you know which fluids the MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF is compatible with.
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When I went to an auto store (forgot the name already) that others here said carried Honda ATF, they didn't have the Honda ATF Z-1, but the Valvoline. I read the back of the container and it did mention something similar to what you posted. I believe it even said it can even replace Toyota's ATF. The savings would have been significant (a little over $3 cheaper than Honda), but my biggest concern would be "what if it doesn't work well?". I'm already out of warranty, so I didn't want to take that chance and just paid more for Honda's ATF Z-1 just for peace of mind.
Here in Tucson AZ some Carquest stores stock Honda Z-1, but at $6.58/qt it's cheaper online at Handa. Seeing all the excitement regarding the torque converter failures, I'm tempted to change brands even though I'm on the extended warranty. Would Valvoline help you in a warranty dispute? Strange how the excess acidity mentioned in one post could build up in a tranny (no combustion, etc). Anyone test for antifreeze leaking into the ATF? I do a drain/fill every other oil change, which now may not be often enough.
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see these threads for more info about maxlife
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38043&highlight=maxlife
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48234&highlight=maxlife
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38043&highlight=maxlife
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48234&highlight=maxlife
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i agree. at most it might be semi syntheticLaphroaig said:
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Agreed, using Group 3 and not telling the world would be a big marketing faux paus...if it was made from Group 3 stocks, everybody at BITOG would be purchasing cases of this stuff at its current price. I know I would.Laphroaig said:
That would explain a lot. Particularly, why people who tow with Odys and use MaxLife seem to enjoy satisfactory results, like funfinder4 and myself.Richie_Richie said:
I just bought 5 gallons of AmSOil Universal ATF via a friend who purchased the Preferred Customer deal. I don't think my local WM is ever going to carry the MaxLife again, or even the Castrol MV ATF. Except for motor oil, all I see on the shelves anymore is WM Super Tech products. At least they still carry Pennzoil 2-stroke semi-synthetic for my boat.
OF
Oil changes for me and our Honda's consist of dropping the engine oil AND 3qts of tranny fluid at same time. Its so simple and easy.
We have a 8 year 80k warranty on the Ody, and 1yr+ left on my 04 Accord up to 100k which I will come close to. So staying with Z1 is important to me.
Doing what I'm doing is such over kill (and not expensive…an extra $20) should a failure occur I know it won’t be maintenance related and I’ll have the receipts to prove it. There’s nothing to question.
Using a different oils other than an OEM spec'd oil is a VERY fuzzy issue with the Magnuson-Moss act. You are not protected as well as you think after reading it. OEM's CAN (OH YES THEY CAN!) call out a specific oil and spec's which you MUST use. And it may be very limited options. Just because it says on XXYY oil bottle, stating that it meets an OEM spec means NOTHING. Absolutely nothing.
Because where would you go with a rejected warranty claim? What do you do? Hire an attorney and spend thousands to fight Honda claiming Mag-Moss Act? Go after the oil company that said they meet the OEM spec??? Good luck with that.
We have a 8 year 80k warranty on the Ody, and 1yr+ left on my 04 Accord up to 100k which I will come close to. So staying with Z1 is important to me.
Doing what I'm doing is such over kill (and not expensive…an extra $20) should a failure occur I know it won’t be maintenance related and I’ll have the receipts to prove it. There’s nothing to question.
Using a different oils other than an OEM spec'd oil is a VERY fuzzy issue with the Magnuson-Moss act. You are not protected as well as you think after reading it. OEM's CAN (OH YES THEY CAN!) call out a specific oil and spec's which you MUST use. And it may be very limited options. Just because it says on XXYY oil bottle, stating that it meets an OEM spec means NOTHING. Absolutely nothing.
Because where would you go with a rejected warranty claim? What do you do? Hire an attorney and spend thousands to fight Honda claiming Mag-Moss Act? Go after the oil company that said they meet the OEM spec??? Good luck with that.
Originally posted by galets
I looked up Valvoline Maxlife ATF and it doesn't say that it is synthetic. Is it synthetic, or mineral, or blend? I imagine it will clearly not be an issue at all if it's mineral or blend. My 03 Ody is at 106K right now on OEM fluid with pretty much no issues, so 118K does not say too much, however it's good to know that this specific fluid didn't kill it or anything.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is also from Valvolines web site. Lots of good info. For what its worth, the bottles of maxlife in my garage state "synthetic Base Oils"
Valvoline.comInternational Sites | FAQs | My Subscriptions ProductsService CentersCar CareRacingHeritageTrade PartnersOur Business FAQs
Motor Oil
Specialty Oils
System Fluids
Power Steering Fluids Automatic Transmission Fluid Antifreeze Pyroil SynPower Chemicals Racing
Our Business Valvoline / FAQs / System Fluids / Automatic Transmission Fluid
Automatic Transmission Fluid
1.I had my transmission fluid changed using Valvoline ATF+4 Synthetic fluid. All previous changes used conventional fluid. Will this cause a problem?
No. Switching to synthetic after using a conventional product will not cause a problem. Synthetic and conventional oils are 100% compatible.
3.Does Valvoline make a synthetic ATF?
Yes. Valvoline makes several synthetic ATF's. MaxLife Dexron/Mercon ATF, Mercon V ATF, ATF +4 and Dexron VI are all synthetic.
5.Is ok to mix synthetic ATF with a conventional and/or synthetic blend ATF?
Yes. Synthetic and conventional fluids are 100% compatible to each other.
6.Is MaxLife ATF compatible with other brands of ATF?
MaxLife is a multi-purpose fluid compatible with many brands and manufacturer recommendations. Refer to the MaxLife label to determine whether MaxLife is compatible for your application.
7.I heard a rumor that using Dexron III will cause the clutch packs to swell and disintegrate? Is there any truth to this?
No. Dexron III ATF will not cause any damages to clutch packs.
8.Is MaxLife ATF an SP-111 fluid?
MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF is 100% compatible for use in SP-II and SP-III applications.
10.Does MaxLife ATF meet Dexron VI specifications?
Yes. MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF meets the Dexron VI specifications.
11.Does GM recognize MaxLife ATF and is this an acceptable fluid to use in place of Dexron VI?
GM only recognizes their factory fill fluid for Dexron VI, but Valvoline meets and exceeds the performance requirements for the specification, and we stand behind the product 100% for this specification.
12.Can MaxLife ATF be mixed with Dexron VI or does the fluid need to be purged prior to installing MaxLIfe ATF?
Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF is 100% compatible with the Dexron VI for mixing or flushing a system.
13.Is MaxLife ATF ok to use in applications requiring Mercon-V fluid?
Yes. MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF meets the Mercon V specifications.
For more information or to submit additional questions, please click here to contact us via email or by phone at 1-800-TEAM-VAL.
Motor Oil Myths
Oil can significantly improve horsepower (it can't make your engine better than it was).
Certain oils, such as Valvoline's MaxLife, can significantly improve horsepower and prolong the life of an engine by conditioning seals and cleaning buildup, sludge, etc. from older engines.
View All Myths 100 Years Under the Hood™
Valvoline Instant Oil Change | Eagle One | Ashland | Contact Us | Site Map | Privacy Policy | Oil Recycling
© 2001 - 2009 Ashland Inc.
I looked up Valvoline Maxlife ATF and it doesn't say that it is synthetic. Is it synthetic, or mineral, or blend? I imagine it will clearly not be an issue at all if it's mineral or blend. My 03 Ody is at 106K right now on OEM fluid with pretty much no issues, so 118K does not say too much, however it's good to know that this specific fluid didn't kill it or anything.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is also from Valvolines web site. Lots of good info. For what its worth, the bottles of maxlife in my garage state "synthetic Base Oils"
Valvoline.comInternational Sites | FAQs | My Subscriptions ProductsService CentersCar CareRacingHeritageTrade PartnersOur Business FAQs
Motor Oil
Specialty Oils
System Fluids
Power Steering Fluids Automatic Transmission Fluid Antifreeze Pyroil SynPower Chemicals Racing
Our Business Valvoline / FAQs / System Fluids / Automatic Transmission Fluid
Automatic Transmission Fluid
1.I had my transmission fluid changed using Valvoline ATF+4 Synthetic fluid. All previous changes used conventional fluid. Will this cause a problem?
No. Switching to synthetic after using a conventional product will not cause a problem. Synthetic and conventional oils are 100% compatible.
3.Does Valvoline make a synthetic ATF?
Yes. Valvoline makes several synthetic ATF's. MaxLife Dexron/Mercon ATF, Mercon V ATF, ATF +4 and Dexron VI are all synthetic.
5.Is ok to mix synthetic ATF with a conventional and/or synthetic blend ATF?
Yes. Synthetic and conventional fluids are 100% compatible to each other.
6.Is MaxLife ATF compatible with other brands of ATF?
MaxLife is a multi-purpose fluid compatible with many brands and manufacturer recommendations. Refer to the MaxLife label to determine whether MaxLife is compatible for your application.
7.I heard a rumor that using Dexron III will cause the clutch packs to swell and disintegrate? Is there any truth to this?
No. Dexron III ATF will not cause any damages to clutch packs.
8.Is MaxLife ATF an SP-111 fluid?
MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF is 100% compatible for use in SP-II and SP-III applications.
10.Does MaxLife ATF meet Dexron VI specifications?
Yes. MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF meets the Dexron VI specifications.
11.Does GM recognize MaxLife ATF and is this an acceptable fluid to use in place of Dexron VI?
GM only recognizes their factory fill fluid for Dexron VI, but Valvoline meets and exceeds the performance requirements for the specification, and we stand behind the product 100% for this specification.
12.Can MaxLife ATF be mixed with Dexron VI or does the fluid need to be purged prior to installing MaxLIfe ATF?
Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF is 100% compatible with the Dexron VI for mixing or flushing a system.
13.Is MaxLife ATF ok to use in applications requiring Mercon-V fluid?
Yes. MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF meets the Mercon V specifications.
For more information or to submit additional questions, please click here to contact us via email or by phone at 1-800-TEAM-VAL.
Motor Oil Myths
Oil can significantly improve horsepower (it can't make your engine better than it was).
Certain oils, such as Valvoline's MaxLife, can significantly improve horsepower and prolong the life of an engine by conditioning seals and cleaning buildup, sludge, etc. from older engines.
View All Myths 100 Years Under the Hood™
Valvoline Instant Oil Change | Eagle One | Ashland | Contact Us | Site Map | Privacy Policy | Oil Recycling
© 2001 - 2009 Ashland Inc.
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302 Posts
I found this today :
DuraDrive™ MV Synthetic ATF
Petro-Canada’s best multi-vehicle automatic transmission fluid
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/en/products/612.aspx
I'll take a look when I'll pass by a Petro-canada, but since they are always the first to increase gas prices, I never gas there... I'll have to go there only for their ATF and I'm pretty sure I'll found as much PC ATF there as I've found Mobil ATF at Esso gas station, i.e. none.
I'll see if I can find it elsewhere. And for our US friends, PC as an united-statestian division...
DuraDrive™ MV Synthetic ATF
Petro-Canada’s best multi-vehicle automatic transmission fluid
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/en/products/612.aspx
I'll take a look when I'll pass by a Petro-canada, but since they are always the first to increase gas prices, I never gas there... I'll have to go there only for their ATF and I'm pretty sure I'll found as much PC ATF there as I've found Mobil ATF at Esso gas station, i.e. none.
I'll see if I can find it elsewhere. And for our US friends, PC as an united-statestian division...
About a month ago, I did a full flush and fill on my 05 with about 55k using Max Life (5 cycles using 4 gallons). It had a previous change at the dealer using Z1 at about 30k. We have put maybe 500 miles on it and it seems to be shifting great. It seems like it is shifting a little snappier.
Mobil 1 ATF is also Z1 rated and I will be doing the same on my 09 Civic EX with about 5k on the clock as soon as it warms up enough for me to be in the garage for a while.
Mobil 1 ATF is also Z1 rated and I will be doing the same on my 09 Civic EX with about 5k on the clock as soon as it warms up enough for me to be in the garage for a while.
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1,211 Posts
It is one of your more popular and highly recommended lower cost ATFs over at BITOG.0dyfamily said:
I know I've got it in both my 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe and my 2008 Ody. It does seem harder to find these days. Your heavy hitters like AutoZone and Advance auto always have it in qt and gallon jug size and typically ~$4.50/qt. Napa and Carquest always have it as well. I did find it at our new Super Waly recently for something like $3.87/qt, but it's sporadic to find it to say the least.Joel
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