[davedrivesody]

At least your Hyundai has an ATF service interval of 100,000 miles and a drain plug.

Many new cars (e.g. Sienna) have "lifetime" ATF and a very difficult method of checking the ATF level.

A new owner might think the vehicle will have low maintenance costs, but just wait until major problems develop with the tranny, likely well after the warranty has expired.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

Can't say there is any difference in feel, but the van gets lots of local driving and it's good to know that all that sludge is out and off the magnet...

Good job!

The newly-cleaned magnet will be even more effective at trapping any ferrous particles suspended in the ATF. That will definitely be good for your transmission.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

I got about 3.6 litres (around 3.8 quarts) out of the transmission and it looked very much like the pictures JHZR2 posted in post #36. I would estimate that I probably had a similar amount of sludge and gunk on the drain plug magnet too. I haven't decided yet whether to do another drain-and-fill soon or just stick with the 1x refresh.

Even though the van has low kilometers, I would do a second change. The ATF should always be bright pink for long transmission life.

Judge from the color of the second drained ATF if a third drain and fill is required.

For the longer term, an ATF drain and fill at every oil change is a good rule of thumb. If it comes out dark, you may need to shorten the interval. ATF stress is highly variable between vans, so you have to decide based on the color of the fluid.

As you mentioned, an ATF drain and fill is easy and inexpensive preventive maintenance, while transmission repairs are expensive.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

New ATF can be difficult to read on the dipstick. It's practically clear, at least this razor-thin film of it.

Hold the dipstick under the glare of a bright light (or the sun if it's still up) and look for the point where the sheen of the fluid ends. Also, check both sides of the dipstick.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

That's a good level. It should be between the holes, so the lower hole should have fluid but not the upper one.

I try to aim for close to the upper one so to have the most amount of ATF in the sump. That's probably anal though since there is only about a pint difference between the two holes.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

2. The non-honda tranny fluids (Max life or Amsoil) are they all the same color like oem fluid?

Yes, Amsoil is pink like the OEM DW-1.

IMHO, you cannot change ATF too often.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

Honda has issued a TSB acknowledging that it is susceptible to thermal breakdown.

Honda DW-1 is a synthetic blend ATF. It's a good product.

Amsoil (and I think also Red Line and Valvoline but I don't know for sure) is full synthetic. Nothing beats full synthetic for doing its job in extreme heat. Even transmissions with auxiliary ATF coolers can generate a lot of localized heat in the clutches that must be fully absorbed by the ATF.

That's why I use Amsoil ATF. No transmission problems so far, knock on wood.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

The drain is done with the trans up to operating temp, right?

Yes, change the ATF at operating temperature. This has two advantages over changing it cold:
1. Drains out more particles suspended in the fluid.
2. Less chance of overfilling since the fluid remaining after the drain is already thermally expanded.

While filling, do you just fill an initial 3qts and check, then top off as required?

Yes, you can do it that way. Once the level is between the dots, add just a small amount at a time so to not overfill it.

Another method is to measure the amount drained out then replace the same amount. (That's how I do it, but I found that measuring into the bottle is inaccurate. So I bought a measuring cylinder to get the amount right.) Make sure the level is good before you drain the old fluid.

Do you take the Ody for a drive to heat up the new fluid to check again?

I don't think it's necessary to make a special trip after changing the fluid. However, check it again after returning from your first trip. Make sure the level is at or near the upper dot - not above. I find that the fluid level doesn't change from heating up the new 3.5 quarts. Also, check the drain bolt for any sign of leaking.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

Sounds like I was overthinking this. It just seems too easy to NOT do these.

Nah, man, you're not overthinking it - just doing it well.

The opposite attitude would be that taken by a high school dropout at a quick lube place.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

I contacted Valvoline and was reassured that the older bottles of Maxlife that do not reflect the compatibility with DW1 are still good with DW1, there were no formulation changes.

Thanks for posting that info.

IIRC, Valvoline added DW-1 to the bottle label only recently. Since Honda compatibility is so important, its absence on the label might lead one to not trust it in their Honda.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

When you check the fluid, do you turn the engine off? If yes, how long do you let it sit before checking?

Yep, check it with the engine off (and hot).

IIRC, you have a 2012. Honda specifies in the 2012 owner's manual that you wait between 60 and 90 seconds after engine shutdown, then check it.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

Yes, drive until the engine is hot and then some to fully warm the transmission, park level, engine running, then check the fluid level.

Fluid level should definitely not be above the upper dot on the older 4- and 5-speed transmissions. An overfull transmission can purge its fluid through the vent if it becomes very hot (not hard to do on these models).

I haven't seen many reports on this problem with newer models, but still, better to stay within the limits defined by the Honda engineers.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

Getting the level right when refilling can be tedious.

Here's how to simplify the refill process:
- Check that the level is right before draining.
- Measure what drains out.
- Refill that same amount.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

I also got the crush washer from the dealer, it was the 18mm one, that little ring of aluminum was $5 at the dealership. :rollingeyes:

Argh!

Amazon has them for a fraction of that price: https://www.amazon.com/18mm-Aluminum-Crush-Washer-SW-05/dp/B002A35DWK

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

No, there's no problem mixing different ATF's, provided the new fluid that you are using is certified by the manufacturer for use in Honda transmissions.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

Very curious about how a software fix can prevent ATF overheating. Does anyone know what controls they could possibly have in place to do this?

Speeding up the gear shift cycle can reduce the heat generated by the clutches (also possibly reducing the smoothness of the shift).

Don't know if this is what's in the software update, but it's possible.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

I bought a pair of the plastic ones last year, and they broke on the 3rd usage.

So many stories of these plastic ramps breaking - it scares the heebie-jeebies out of me.

I might use them if I had a micro car (e.g. Smart) but I will stick with steel jack stands for the 2-ton+ Ody.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

1) How much (%) does ATF expand from cold to operating temperature?

I don't have a %, but in my experience it expands not much at normal operating temperatures. For example, cold to hot raises the level by twice the width of the hole on the dipstick (2 mm?). However, I suspect the coefficient of expansion increases as the ATF temperature increases, based on reports of ATF overflowing after extended high speed driving. (Older models, not your 2016.)

2) Should I drain enough fluid out to lower the level to between the two holes on the dipstick?

Yes, keep it near the upper hole. That allows room for the ATF to expand within the sump when very hot. The extra ATF over the lower hole will help keep it a bit cooler. Use small-diameter clear vinyl tubing down the dipstick tube as a siphon to remove the excess. (Usual cautions apply to avoid ingesting ATF.)

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

You're welcome!

The drain plug method works equally well.

Dave

 

[davedrivesody]

I was surprised how brown and bad the ATF was after just 30k miles.
Will do drain and fills frequently now!

Yeah, good idea - at least two quick-cycle drain and fills as mentioned above, then every 15K after that.

However, the burned ATF is merely a symptom of thermal stress in the transmission. Do you tow, or do a lot of stop-and-go driving? Maybe consider adding an auxiliary ATF cooler...

Dave