Group buy on '04 Ody's?

 

Group buy on '04 Ody's?

Thanks for your reply. Although that does seem like a possibility.

At what point would that seem feasible to a dealer? Lets say that Joes Honda has an allocation of 10 per month. Would this dealership give a discount to 5 people that would want to purchase at the same time? The dealer would more than likely look at it as losing money on those 5...this is the mindset of the majority of dealerships.

Have you tried to talk with dealerships about this?

 

Well I think because the supply/demand is still so high there has been little incentive.
We were exhausted dealing with valley dealerships wanting up to $3995 'market adjustment' for an Ody in stock...ended up driving 140 miles to buy one for MSRP (still a $$ home-run/profit for a dealer in comparison to the 'typical' sale).
Honda Corp has not called/responded to three personal letters I sent requesting an explanation why the purchasing process was so difficult, which still bothers me from a consumer/future Honda/Acura buyer perspective. Ody's are treated like 'gold', and many dealerships acted 'pompous' akin to Harley-Davidson dealers. I would never buy a Saturn, but at least they were 'nice'.
I absolutely agree that dealers are in business to make money however I was sickened by the 'unreasonable' behavior/sales practices we dealt with. In conclusion if a dealer a 1000 miles away offered a fair price/if not, a sizeable discount-throwing in some major accessories/and no pre-pickup 'surprises....we would be willing to buy the one-way plane ticket.
I have seen dealership personnel join/leave Odyclub since I started in Dec/2001. I feel it's a great forum, if only to observe what customer's desire/have dealt with/and want that can only help your business/relationships
...just my .02cent Odyclub member 'market adjustment' addendum

 

Well I think because the supply/demand is still so high there has been little incentive.
We were exhausted dealing with valley dealerships wanting up to $3995 'market adjustment' for an Ody in stock...ended up driving 140 miles to buy one for MSRP (still a $$ home-run/profit for a dealer in comparison to the 'typical' sale).
Honda Corp has not called/responded to three personal letters I sent requesting an explanation why the purchasing process was so difficult, which still bothers me from a consumer/future Honda/Acura buyer perspective. Ody's are treated like 'gold', and many dealerships acted 'pompous' akin to Harley-Davidson dealers. I would never buy a Saturn, but at least they were 'nice'.
I absolutely agree that dealers are in business to make money however I was sickened by the 'unreasonable' behavior/sales practices we dealt with. In conclusion if a dealer a 1000 miles away offered a fair price/if not, a sizeable discount-throwing in some major accessories/and no pre-pickup 'surprises....we would be willing to buy the one-way plane ticket.
I have seen dealership personnel join/leave Odyclub since I started in Dec/2001. I feel it's a great forum, if only to observe what customer's desire/have dealt with/and want that can only help your business/relationships
...just my .02cent Odyclub member 'market adjustment' addendum

Thanks for your reply. I think as time goes on you'll find the dealerships that do the ADM thing will dimish. Honda is very concerned with their Customers satisfaction.

I dont think that you'll get any answer from Honda Corp from your letters, HOWEVER, the dealership will. There is NO room for old school treatment.

I look at it this way...its your 30K...spend it how you want.

Thanks

 

OdyRocky,

Very well said!!! You took the words right out of my mouth. I too, hope that sales practices are changing for the better.

 

Well perhaps it's something that at the dealership level you guys can tell Honda, in fact 'they' should be reading these posts everyday...but it's not like Honda Corp have ever sent me a PM/private message with a contact name/phone number.

I appreciate your reply and it must be aggravating realizing that although Honda is concerned with customer satisfaction I will 'probably' get no reply from Honda (Corp.). Certainly it is my $30k along with the decision to spend it however it's sad that Honda Corp is still doing the 'old school' behavior. I sold cars for over a year in the early 90's at a Chysler/Plymouth/Dodge dealership and have respect for how tough that can be, even tougher if the manufacturer's customer interaction is vague.

I did try and get rid of the addendum 'talk' with my (most) local dealership and was told 'well, you just need to drive the van', like the new car smell would overshadow the $$. They just didn't care...nothing like 'throwing away' a potential customer with that lovely six-figure/dual income/pending kids/Gen-X/buy's a new car every two years/is 'loyal' to good retail experiences/demographic.

You have this great opportunity to 'target' customers like (me). In 2004/2005 when we are ready for another van you will know what I am looking for

 

Welcome, thanks for volunteering to take the heat!

As an insider, is there anything you can share on the whole 5W20 switch? It's very unusual for a manufaturer to specify that ONLY one grade of oil is acceptable for ALL temperature ranges. Suspicion is that it has more to do with EPA mileage ratings than engine life. Does your shop offer synthetic oil to customers who want it? If so, what grade do you use? What manufacturer?

 

Certainly it is my $30k along with the decision to spend it however it's sad that Honda Corp is still doing the 'old school' behavior. I sold cars for over a year in the early 90's at a Chysler/Plymouth/Dodge dealership and have respect for how tough that can be, even tougher if the manufacturer's customer interaction is vague.

Thanks for the reply. Please keep in mind that it is not Honda with the old school type behavior. They certainly have changed their business focus. It is on the local dealership level that needs to change.

 

Welcome, thanks for volunteering to take the heat!

As an insider, is there anything you can share on the whole 5W20 switch? It's very unusual for a manufaturer to specify that ONLY one grade of oil is acceptable for ALL temperature ranges. Suspicion is that it has more to do with EPA mileage ratings than engine life. Does your shop offer synthetic oil to customers who want it? If so, what grade do you use? What manufacturer?

I have no answer for you about the 5w20w oil switch. One of Hondas main strengths is their knowledge of engines and how to get the most HP with low enmission and decent mileage. If they say that they reccomend 5w 20w, then I dont have a problem with that...just get the best brand you can.

We use Castrol exlusively, and offer 3 choices, regular, symthetic blend and synthetic.

 

It seems to be a dealer and area issue. We had no problems with our experience (other than paying MSRP and waiting for 2 months). We were not asked for over MSRP, of course no negotiating off MSRP either. No extras were added on, and other than waiting for 2 months to get the brand new '03, everything was very smooth.

 

My local dealer isn't greedy. I got slightly below MSRP, I don't think they ever sold an Ody above MSRP. Dealership is locally owned and the owner won't allow sales over MSRP. I have noticed that since mid Sep, they don't seem to be preselling all of their shipment as I have seen Odys on the lot for sale. Perhaps the market is slowing. Jerry, have you noticed a sales slow down(more days to sell)?
The only thing I wish my dealer was more forthcoming about were service issues. They didn't seem to know anything about tranny failures in Odys or the power door sticking problems.
Another question for Jerry, how are dealers informed about service bulletins? Whose responsiibility is it to make sure that the service/sales dept knows about bulletins?
Oh, and welcome to OdyClub Jerry. Hope the relationship is long term and beneficial to all parties

 

Are you sure that the Castrol Syntec you put in cars is 5W20? I didn't think they had one on the market yet.

One of my concerns has been my desire to use synthetic. My understanding was that, for now, only Amsoil offers a 5W20 that is API certified? Is my information out of date?

 

Oh, and welcome to OdyClub Jerry. Hope the relationship is long term and beneficial to all parties

me too. Its not my intent to come and pitch anything here, just to help if I can.

 

Jerry,

Can you tell us if you have any knowledge regarding the redesign of the Odyssey (either year of and/or changes)?

 

Jerry,

Can you tell us if you have any knowledge regarding the redesign of the Odyssey (either year of and/or changes)?

This topic just came up today. We know that there will be some changes, as to what, that is still for debate.

I'm thinking, side curtain air bags, new dash display, tilt/telescoping steering wheel...as to the overall look...right now, your guess is as good as mine.

 

Jerry, if you're still listening...

I have a question. On Honda's invoice to the dealer for Odysseys, is there a separate charge for national or regional advertising? Or is this cost built into the invoice price?

I bought our '03 Ody last week, and we love it. I've been watching the Price Pulse Poll here at the Odyclub to see how my purchase price compares with others.

I've read in Consumer Reports that a reasonable Gross Profit from the sale of a new car is 4 to 8 percent. This Gross Profit pays for salaries, commissions, rent, local advertising, insurance, financing/interest on inventory, power/water/gas utilties, etc. These are all the things that the dealer has control over. The dealer doesn't have control over the invoice price, destination charges, and the manufacturer or regional co-op type advertising. I want to take this advertising charge out of the equation when calculating the Gross Profit (if it exists).

By my calculation, for my Ody purchase, the dealer's gross profit was approximately 7.75 percent. This assumed no advertising charge on the invoice. Before I bought the Ody I had a quote from a Chevrolet dealer on a Venture Minivan. The salesman gave me a copy of their invoice, and it included roughly $450 of regional advertising. If I plug in $450 for advertising this brings the Gross Profit on the sale of my Ody down to 6.03 percent.

Can you enlighten me/us about the advertising charges for Honda Odysseys?

Thanks,
disport
'03 Ody EX-L RES, Midnight Blue Pearl

 

Re: Jerry, if you're still listening...

I have a question. On Honda's invoice to the dealer for Odysseys, is there a separate charge for national or regional advertising? Or is this cost built into the invoice price?

I bought our '03 Ody last week, and we love it. I've been watching the Price Pulse Poll here at the Odyclub to see how my purchase price compares with others.

I've read in Consumer Reports that a reasonable Gross Profit from the sale of a new car is 4 to 8 percent. This Gross Profit pays for salaries, commissions, rent, local advertising, insurance, financing/interest on inventory, power/water/gas utilties, etc. These are all the things that the dealer has control over. The dealer doesn't have control over the invoice price, destination charges, and the manufacturer or regional co-op type advertising. I want to take this advertising charge out of the equation when calculating the Gross Profit (if it exists).

By my calculation, for my Ody purchase, the dealer's gross profit was approximately 7.75 percent. This assumed no advertising charge on the invoice. Before I bought the Ody I had a quote from a Chevrolet dealer on a Venture Minivan. The salesman gave me a copy of their invoice, and it included roughly $450 of regional advertising. If I plug in $450 for advertising this brings the Gross Profit on the sale of my Ody down to 6.03 percent.

Can you enlighten me/us about the advertising charges for Honda Odysseys?

Thanks,
disport
'03 Ody EX-L RES, Midnight Blue Pearl

There is no advertising fee listed on the Honda invoice.

 

Thanks Jerry!

Wow. Fast reply. Thanks for the info.

Merry Christams and Happy Holidays!

 

Re: Thanks Jerry!

Wow. Fast reply. Thanks for the info.

Merry Christams and Happy Holidays!

same to you and your family.

 

Realize there is a dealer holdback

Most dealers won't tell you this but there is a little kickback the dealers get from the manufacturer for certain or all cars that does not show up on the invoice.

I bought a Celica in Mississippi in mid 90's and thought I had worked a great deal for $300 over invoice. When I got home I realized they gave me more paperwork than they realized and noticed the dealer got $500 from Toyota so their total take per the invoice and other invoice was $800.

FYI...I bought a '92 Camry LE at 89% MSRP and a '94 Celica at 86% sticker. This provides an idea of how much profit per ody Honda and the dealers are making. My father-in-law sold us the '92 and only got $25 commission. He does not like to sell Civics these days as Honda is selling 'em cheap and thus commission are slim. He really really likes selling Ody's. We did not buy from him as the dealer he works for is a typical snobbish big metro dealer. We bought from a small town dealer that relies on repeat customers and can't rely on lots of new customers to replace the previously ticked off customers.

 

Ah, yes. I had already figured that one out. Actually, some years ago I created a spreadsheet for myself which calculates several things for me. It can tell me how much to offer for the vehicle, how much the dealer is making on the sale (Gross Profit), dealer profit percentage, sales tax, my monthly payment, total financing cost, etc.

This year I bought an iPAQ 3835 Pocket PC, and when I went to the dealer to buy my Ody I loaded the spreadsheet and used it right there in the dealership when we were negociating different vehicles, various options, financing, and accessories.

The ultimate amount that the dealer pays for the vehicle alone, after holdback, is what I call the "Dealer Vehicle Cost." Here's how I calculate the Dealer Vehicle Cost:

Total Invoice Price including options and option discounts, but without Advertising and Destination charges, minus the following:
- Dealer incentives
- Customer incentives/rebates (assuming rebates go to dealer)
- Holdback


I calculate "Gross Profit" as follows:

Sales (Offer) Price minus
- Dealer Vehicle Cost (see above)
- Destination
- Advertising


The "Profit Percentage" is then calculated thus:

Gross Profit divided by Dealer Vehicle Cost times 100


I see the Gross Profit as the amount remaining that the dealer uses to pay his bills. This is what I use to calculate the profit percentage. According to other web sites including carbuyingtips.com and ConsumerReports.com, the average car should sell for a profit percentage in the range of 4 to 8 percent. I expect higher demand vehicles and luxury vehicles to garner an even higher profit percentage.


Happy Holidays to all....
disport
'03 Ody EX-L RES, Midnight Blue Pearl

 

The honda holdback is 3%,
Toyota is 2%

I wonder if there are some other wholesale discounts that the dealer gets that we don't know about. Consumer Reports talks about the real cost to the dealer that you can find out if you order special report from the magazine (i believe it's like $12 per vehicle). Does anyone know if it's the holdback that they are reffering to?

 

letter100

I ordered one of those reports from Consumer Reports before I purchased the Ody. It didn't have any information that I didn't already have from other free sources. At the time I received the report there were no dealer incentives and no customer incentives.

The holdback, like you stated, is 3% for Honda. That is, 3% of the the Base Vehicle MSRP, not the Total MSRP like many other manufacturers use. The Total MSRP includes Destination and manufacturer installed options. Honda doesn't have manufacturer installed options, so the difference is only about $14. Honda has different models (e.g. LX, EX, EX-L, EX-L RES, and EX-L NAV), and each has its own Base Vehicle MSRP.

I've read and heard from a number of different sources that Honda doesn't do dealer incentives. If they do, they are very, very secretive. Occassionally, they do customer incentives such as low finance rates. I cannot remember if Honda does customer cash back and/or rebates. I would assume that they do. None was available when I bought my Ody. I just missed 3.99% A.P.R. financing through Honda. My dealer was able to get me 4.75% A.P.R. on a 65 month loan -- don't know if that's good, bad, or otherwise. It was certainly better than Bank of America (my personal bank) at 5.99% A.P.R. for a 60 month loan. I belong to 2 different credit unions and the best they offered for a 60 month loan was 5.5% A.P.R.

I opted for a 65 month loan since the interest rate was no different than the 60 month loan. I'm going to attempt to pay for the Ody in 4 years by making additional principle payments along the way. But it's nice to know that when necessary (baby on the way!) I can pay only the low (yeah, right) minimum monthly payment.

Happy Holidays,
disport
'03 Ody EX-L RES, Midnight Blue Pearl

 

The honda holdback is 3%,
Toyota is 2%

I wonder if there are some other wholesale discounts that the dealer gets that we don't know about. Consumer Reports talks about the real cost to the dealer that you can find out if you order special report from the magazine (i believe it's like $12 per vehicle). Does anyone know if it's the holdback that they are reffering to?

I am sure that there are other discounts...however, that will cost you ALOT of money to get. Honda dealerships go for about 10-50 mil nowadays.

 

Re: letter100

I ordered one of those reports from Consumer Reports before I purchased the Ody. It didn't have any information that I didn't already have from other free sources. At the time I received the report there were no dealer incentives and no customer incentives.

The holdback, like you stated, is 3% for Honda. That is, 3% of the the Base Vehicle MSRP, not the Total MSRP like many other manufacturers use. The Total MSRP includes Destination and manufacturer installed options. Honda doesn't have manufacturer installed options, so the difference is only about $14. Honda has different models (e.g. LX, EX, EX-L, EX-L RES, and EX-L NAV), and each has its own Base Vehicle MSRP.

I've read and heard from a number of different sources that Honda doesn't do dealer incentives. If they do, they are very, very secretive. Occassionally, they do customer incentives such as low finance rates. I cannot remember if Honda does customer cash back and/or rebates. I would assume that they do. None was available when I bought my Ody. I just missed 3.99% A.P.R. financing through Honda. My dealer was able to get me 4.75% A.P.R. on a 65 month loan -- don't know if that's good, bad, or otherwise. It was certainly better than Bank of America (my personal bank) at 5.99% A.P.R. for a 60 month loan. I belong to 2 different credit unions and the best they offered for a 60 month loan was 5.5% A.P.R.

I opted for a 65 month loan since the interest rate was no different than the 60 month loan. I'm going to attempt to pay for the Ody in 4 years by making additional principle payments along the way. But it's nice to know that when necessary (baby on the way!) I can pay only the low (yeah, right) minimum monthly payment.

Happy Holidays,
disport
'03 Ody EX-L RES, Midnight Blue Pearl

we have 3.49% going from now until Jan 2nd on Odysseys