[lindros2]

Sincere question - does the new Pilot 3.5L (presumably also in the new 2025 Odyssey) solve for the VCM (valve shutoff) issues in the 2018-23 Odyssey?

Here's why I ask (other than the fact that there is a whole VCM thread and people who have disabled it...)

"Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) is Honda's term for its variable displacement technology, which saves fuel by using the i-VTEC system to disable one bank of cylinders at cruise"

 

[mikidymac]

There is no VCM "issue" on the 5th gen odyssey. No VCM issues have been reported or experienced, just people still shell shocked from the previous generation issues.

 

[WiiMaster]

VCM is still conceptually flawed, and unless Honda completely changes their implementation, which from what I understand about the new DOHC engine, is not the case, it will always be a matter of masking issues enough to where it gets out of warranty and people don't notice anything.

They have not done anything to fix the vacuum created in cylinders.

 

[mikidymac]

VCM is still conceptually flawed, and unless Honda completely changes their implementation, which from what I understand about the new DOHC engine, is not the case, it will always be a matter of masking issues enough to where it gets out of warranty and people don't notice anything.

They have not done anything to fix the vacuum created in cylinders.

You keep saying this about the VCM in the 5th Gen but where is the proof that it causes an issue?
You have a 2006 so the new VCM isn't like yours.
"Conceptually flawed" so in theory it could cause issues but doesn't? Just because the older VCM did doesn't mean this one does.
VCM-3 has been out since 2015 and has no reported issues, I would say an 8 year run would start showing issues by now.
Fix the vacuum issue? I think they addressed that in VCM-3...
"VCM eliminates “pumping losses” in the deactivated cylinders. By keeping the valves closed in the cylinder to stop fuel supply, it also prevents air in-and-out to that cylinder. This eliminates pumping loss—the air resistance incurred when the pistons pump intake air and exhaust gases through the cylinder—which is the largest source of resistance in engine operation at low loads. This is the primary reason why deactivating the cylinders contributes to improved fuel economy. 2) Reducing pumping losses in active cylinders. In 3- cylinder operation, the throttle is open wider. This makes inhalation of intake air easier for the active cylinders, reducing pumping losses for improved fuel economy."
We get it, you hate the 5th gen and nobody should ever buy one.

 

[tyman]

You keep saying this about the VCM in the 5th Gen but where is the proof that it causes an issue?
You have a 2006 so the new VCM isn't like yours.
"Conceptually flawed" so in theory it could cause issues but doesn't? Just because the older VCM did doesn't mean this one does.
VCM-3 has been out since 2015 and has no reported issues, I would say an 8 year run would start showing issues by now.
Fix the vacuum issue? I think they addressed that in VCM-3...
"VCM eliminates “pumping losses” in the deactivated cylinders. By keeping the valves closed in the cylinder to stop fuel supply, it also prevents air in-and-out to that cylinder. This eliminates pumping loss—the air resistance incurred when the pistons pump intake air and exhaust gases through the cylinder—which is the largest source of resistance in engine operation at low loads. This is the primary reason why deactivating the cylinders contributes to improved fuel economy. 2) Reducing pumping losses in active cylinders. In 3- cylinder operation, the throttle is open wider. This makes inhalation of intake air easier for the active cylinders, reducing pumping losses for improved fuel economy."
We get it, you hate the 5th gen and nobody should ever buy one.

Here's one example on this very forum: Piston ring replacement covered under CPO 100k...

and another: 2015 Odyssey Piston ring replacement at 81K

and another: Class Action Lawsuit

 

[WiiMaster]

You keep saying this about the VCM in the 5th Gen but where is the proof that it causes an issue?
You have a 2006 so the new VCM isn't like yours.
"Conceptually flawed" so in theory it could cause issues but doesn't? Just because the older VCM did doesn't mean this one does.
VCM-3 has been out since 2015 and has no reported issues, I would say an 8 year run would start showing issues by now.
Fix the vacuum issue? I think they addressed that in VCM-3...
"VCM eliminates “pumping losses” in the deactivated cylinders. By keeping the valves closed in the cylinder to stop fuel supply, it also prevents air in-and-out to that cylinder. This eliminates pumping loss—the air resistance incurred when the pistons pump intake air and exhaust gases through the cylinder—which is the largest source of resistance in engine operation at low loads. This is the primary reason why deactivating the cylinders contributes to improved fuel economy. 2) Reducing pumping losses in active cylinders. In 3- cylinder operation, the throttle is open wider. This makes inhalation of intake air easier for the active cylinders, reducing pumping losses for improved fuel economy."
We get it, you hate the 5th gen and nobody should ever buy one.

Honda can do all they want to try to minimize the effects of VCM, whether it's only run deactivated cylinders for a certain amount of time, tune it to activate less, whatever. Key word is all they've been doing is making it run less, indicating that it running is a problem. They've even pretty much advertised this with the software update they had a bulletin for years ago that tuned the system to activate less. If it's such a good system why is activating it for longer periods of time causing a problem? The fact that you assumed my 2006 even has VCM tells me all that I need to know, really.

Doesn't matter how you do it, a V6 running on 3 cylinders is not a recipe for success, and if you don't believe me, go disconnect your rear 3 coil packs, start the engine, and see for yourself.

The vacuum issue cannot be addressed without completely changing the implementation of VCM. This has been an issue ever since it was introduced and nothing about it now is different. By leaving the valves closed and never opening them, there is a vacuum being drawn in the combustion chamber and that is the source of many of the issues.

All Honda has done with VCM-3 is use it less so that the issues never have a chance to develop.

 

[WiiMaster]

Here's one example on this very forum: Piston ring replacement covered under CPO 100k...

and another: 2015 Odyssey Piston ring replacement at 81K

and another: Class Action Lawsuit

None of them are on the 5th gen.

 

[mikidymac]

Honda can do all they want to try to minimize the effects of VCM, whether it's only run deactivated cylinders for a certain amount of time, tune it to activate less, whatever. Key word is all they've been doing is making it run less, indicating that it running is a problem. They've even pretty much advertised this with the software update they had a bulletin for years ago that tuned the system to activate less. If it's such a good system why is activating it for longer periods of time causing a problem? The fact that you assumed my 2006 even has VCM tells me all that I need to know, really. I honestly don't care about your 2006. Makes it strange you care so much about the 5th Gen that you don't even have.

Doesn't matter how you do it, a V6 running on 3 cylinders is not a recipe for success, and if you don't believe me, go disconnect your rear 3 coil packs, start the engine, and see for yourself.
VCM-3 isn't even close to being the same as pulling the coils.

The vacuum issue cannot be addressed without completely changing the implementation of VCM. This has been an issue ever since it was introduced and nothing about it now is different. By leaving the valves closed and never opening them, there is a vacuum being drawn in the combustion chamber and that is the source of many of the issues.
Actually there isn't a vacuum, quite the opposite. The valves are closed on the bottom compression stroke so there is actually air pressure in the cylinder which acts as an air spring to reduce pumping losses, just like I posted above. The goal is to reduce pumping losses on the cylinders not providing power, a vacuum would increase pumping losses.

All Honda has done with VCM-3 is use it less so that the issues never have a chance to develop.
Glad we agree that no issues have developed.
Don't et me wrong, I am not saying VCM1 and VCM2 are good in any way and have caused lots of problems and should be Muzzled. GM had lots of problems whith theirs also. I am only saying the VCM3 hasn't been a problem.

 

[tyman]

None of them are on the 5th gen.

It was in response to his post about VCM-3 being 2015+. They are 2015+.

/slap

 

[mikidymac]

Here's one example on this very forum: Piston ring replacement covered under CPO 100k...

and another: 2015 Odyssey Piston ring replacement at 81K

and another: Class Action Lawsuit

Sorry, I mea

It was in response to his post about VCM-3 being 2015+. They are 2015+.

/slap

Sorry, I only meant that VCM-3 has been out since 2015, not that it was in the 2015-2017 Odyssey.

The examples above are all VCM2 which I agree is an issue. I was only stating that VCM3 in the Gen 5 odyssey hasn't been an issue.

 

[mikidymac]

Sorry to everyone, I didn't mean to get this thread off the rails.
I just wanted to let the OP know the VCM-3 hasn't been an issue as he asked if the new engines would solve the VCM problem on the 2018-2023 Odyssey.
No clue on the new engine so I will bow out.

 

[WiiMaster]

New engine uses hydraulic lifters and they simply depressurize them to deactivate the cylinders. So at the end of the day the implementation is the same, they are just closing off the valves. Until/unless they deviate from that approach, the same issues will be present.

 

[SparkyJJO]

New engine uses hydraulic lifters and they simply depressurize them to deactivate the cylinders. So at the end of the day the implementation is the same, they are just closing off the valves. Until/unless they deviate from that approach, the same issues will be present.

Except we have not seen the issues crop up for whatever reason. I think that's the point, something is different because they haven't had the problems, which is a good thing.

I am not any sort of fan of cylinder deactivation, but at least the 3rd time (so far) appears to be the charm.

🤷‍♂️

 

[WiiMaster]

Except we have not seen the issues crop up for whatever reason. I think that's the point, something is different because they haven't had the problems, which is a good thing.

I am not any sort of fan of cylinder deactivation, bit at least the 3rd time (so far) appears to be the charm.

🤷‍♂️

Just because Honda has tuned VCM to hide the issues doesn't mean the issues aren't there fundamentally.

Putting lipstick on a pig may make it look pretty, but it's still a pig.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Just because Honda has tuned VCM to hide the issues doesn't mean the issues aren't there fundamentally.

Putting lipstick on a pig may make it look pretty, but it's still a pig.

But even if they are there fundamentally, but never present themselves in actuality, then does it really matter?

 

[WiiMaster]

But even if they are there fundamentally, but never present themselves in actuality, then does it really matter?

It shows just how much the VCM system stresses the engine, even if it doesn't manifest itself in the short term symptoms like it used to. Like I outlined above, no V6 will run well on 3 cylinders, and you can see this yourself by manually disabling 3 of them. Not exactly something you want for long term reliability.

 

[mikidymac]

It shows just how much the VCM system stresses the engine, even if it doesn't manifest itself in the short term symptoms like it used to. Like I outlined above, no V6 will run well on 3 cylinders, and you can see this yourself by manually disabling 3 of them. Not exactly something you want for long term reliability.

Dude, seriously just drop it.
It’s not the same as disabling the coils on 3 cylinders and it’s not showing up to be a problem on these 5th gen vans no matter how much you personally think it’s a problem.

Almost half a million of these 5th generation vans and millions of combined miles would prove your theory that it might cause a problem at some point false.

I just don’t get how you think something is proof that it stresses the engine when there are no issues reported and no proof of any issues related to the VCM3.

It’s almost as if you are arguing that the early Toyota V6’s use to blow head gaskets so now any Toyota V6 is going to blow head gaskets because they still build V6’s and use head gaskets. Because you know… Toyota V6’s blow head gaskets. VCM1 and VCM2 were bad so any future VCM is going to be bad, proof be damned.

 

[dvpatel]

Sincere question - does the new Pilot 3.5L (presumably also in the new 2025 Odyssey) solve for the VCM (valve shutoff) issues in the 2018-23 Odyssey?

Here's why I ask (other than the fact that there is a whole VCM thread and people who have disabled it...)

See what you did?

 

[dvpatel]

Sorry to everyone, I didn't mean to get this thread off the rails.
:
:
No clue on the new engine so I will bow out.

Clearly, you’re not bowing out and you aren’t sorry. Allow me to blow your mind. WiiMaster has a 2006 EX. So NO VCM at all.

That doesn’t make him clueless or any less than you. He’s done all the research and follows every VCM thread in every generation. Unlike you, he’s been very helpful to hoards of people.

You drop it instead of telling him to do so. You may put Wii on ignore to save you the stress and anxiety.

 

[lindros2]

See what you did?

I'm sorry. I'm going to self-ban myself for a day based on opening a can of worms.