[John Clark]

Right. So, if the trans was fine on DW-1, you switch to Maxlife as 4x4rock says he did, but then later experienced hard shifting problems wouldn't that indicate an issue with Maxlife, assuming there were no other issues prior to that?

I experienced similar when I switched to Maxlife in my 02 GMC with a 4L60e with 55K miles. After a while I started getting a triple shift from 1st to 2nd after getting off the freeway and a hard 1-2 shift most of the time. I didn't put it together with the fluid change since it was 5-10K prior to that. I ended up putting a Transgo shift kit in it which fixed the issue but later recalled the change to Maxlife at the previous fluid change. I then decided to go back to Dexron VI and has been fine ever since. My own theory is that the Maxlife caused the TCC valve (I think that's the one that was sticking causing my 1st-2nd gear shifting issue, but don't recall now) to start to stick and caused the hard shifts. I probably could have skipped the shift kit and just went back to the proper fluid (even though it says it's compatible with Dexron VI vehicles) and been done with it. To be honest, I'm sorry I ever switched to it and kind of glad I haven't on my Ody.

 

[0dyfamily]

We made the switch to MaxLife due to slipping in 4th or 5th gears. Granted, I was pulling Moby Dick (my bass boat) up a slight grade, but it was the end of a day on the lake. By then the boat's fuel tanks were depleted, ice chests were empty, outside temps were a tiny bit cooler, and my throttle angle was pretty low....yet I experienced pretty worrying clutch slip on a couple separate occasions in those gears.

Probably a good reason to follow the Honda owners' manual and use D3 while towing. Still, switching from Honda ATF to MaxLife was a definite plus in helping static clutch friction. Under the same, and sometimes under more severe circumstances, 4th and 5th gears did not slip after we started using MaxLife ATF.

Your GMC 4L60E is a pretty different beast from the Odysseys' puny transmissions, but "in spirit" it is kind of like the Honda B7TA 4-speed. Before any know-it-alls out there say I am committing blasphemy, let me explain. Both transmissions use shift solenoids to select power path combinations inside the transmission that allow four distinct, well-spaced gear ratios, all controlled by the PCM. Both do this with a minimum of shafts, gears, and thus rotating mass and bearing surfaces. It actually should, all things held equal, add up to a more reliable means of transmitting engine power.

Also, John, you did change a couple variables, so we may not know what caused what to do worse or better. It's definitely possible, though, that the Valvoline ATF was not a good match for your GM product. It happens. If I were in your shoes, having had that happen, I would definitely be scratching my chin and be hesitant to change anything, especially when your van is operating just fine for now. Your case is one where "it ain't broke, so no need to fix it."

OF

 

[John Clark]

Once again, I totally agree. I think switching in your case was probably a wise idea. However, I see so many switching to Maxlife just because they read it here (or anywhere) that others did and they think it's "better" than the DW-1. I think an educated switch, and a switch for a reason, is OK. I just don't think that switching, in all cases, is a good idea.

Just my opinion...I'm at 185K on my trans and have been doing drain and fills per the MM since I owned the van. The first couple times I did 3x drain and fills but now I just do one every other oil change. There's no real scientific way to know which fluid is best. I am inclined to think that if you do a fair amount of towing then switching to something like Maxlife is probably a smart idea. But, with reports like the above about experiencing issues after 10-15K that leads me away from making a switch just to make a switch. I know many here have switched and not experienced that so it's hard to make a determination one way or another, though.

 

[Odyssey.owner]

UPDATE:

Previously, I fixed transmission slippage by replacing DW1 with Valvoline MaxLife full synthetic ATF. Downshifts are remained harsh though, until I added Lubgard ATF Protectant aka "Lubegard Red". That Lubegard worked for a while, but slowly harsh downshifting came back. Then I replaced all transmission fluid with fresh Valvoline Maxlife ( this atf actually is very cheap, $18 for a gallon at local walmart ) . Without Lubegard ATF Protectant downshifts got even worse, with pronounced "pull-back" when coming to a stop.

Tried to reset PCM by disconnecting and shorting battery terminals, that helped for a while, downshifts were smooth and pull-back disappeared for 3 days or so. I probably should try to reset PCM property, using bidirectional scan tool, but that's another story..

Anyways, instead of Lubegard ATF Protectant I tried to use Lubegard Shudder Fix, and that thing worked even better! Right now transmission works the best I ever had it, hopefully It will last for a while. No sign of slippage, shifting very kwell. Will update later.

http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-230/Instant+Shudder+Fixx

 

[0dyfamily]

This LG Instant Shudder Fix is rather popular in my area, across all makes and types of vehicles (passenger & work vehicles, and sometimes farm equipment):

Sells right off the shelf at O'Reilly's, along with other LG products.

OF

 

[berlymahn]

eh...crap. Tramsmissions. The thing I truly know nothing about.


Having a shudder in the 40mph range. Goes away with push on the gas, but it is becoming more pronounced. Worried it's a transmission issue after reading numeroud posts here. (Also, am replacing my front/back motor mounts. - ran a torque test and believe them to be bad.) VCM Muzzler just installed BTW.


239K on the transmission.


Not sure how to proceed, and switching at this point might be an experiment worth considering, I dunno.... Could use some advice, albeit, in the blind on your part, I know.


I normally only do the drain/fill procedure (not total flush). When you switch to Valvoline, do you need to do a total flush (at one time), or can you do 3 drain fills at once and get close to accomplishing the task.


For the Lubeguard, when you add it, does this mean you reduce in volume the amount of Trans fluid, or just add lubeguard "on top"?

 

[cybersaga]

I normally only do the drain/fill procedure (not total flush). When you switch to Valvoline, do you need to do a total flush (at one time), or can you do 3 drain fills at once and get close to accomplishing the task.


For the Lubeguard, when you add it, does this mean you reduce in volume the amount of Trans fluid, or just add lubeguard "on top"?

Just do the 3x drain and fill. Run it and switch through all the gears between each drain and fill. A drain and fill will replace 3.3 qt, but the total volume of the trans is 8.0 qt. So you'll get most of it out with drain and fill.

Yes, you reduce the amount of volume for the Lubeguard, but that's easy. On the last fill, calculate how much Lubeguard you need for the total volume of fluid (the full 8.0 qt), and count that toward the 3.3 qt of ATF you add.

 

[jasonkim]

UPDATE:

Previously, I fixed transmission slippage by replacing DW1 with Valvoline MaxLife full synthetic ATF. Downshifts are remained harsh though, until I added Lubgard ATF Protectant aka "Lubegard Red". That Lubegard worked for a while, but slowly harsh downshifting came back. Then I replaced all transmission fluid with fresh Valvoline Maxlife ( this atf actually is very cheap, $18 for a gallon at local walmart ) . Without Lubegard ATF Protectant downshifts got even worse, with pronounced "pull-back" when coming to a stop.

Tried to reset PCM by disconnecting and shorting battery terminals, that helped for a while, downshifts were smooth and pull-back disappeared for 3 days or so. I probably should try to reset PCM property, using bidirectional scan tool, but that's another story..

Anyways, instead of Lubegard ATF Protectant I tried to use Lubegard Shudder Fix, and that thing worked even better! Right now transmission works the best I ever had it, hopefully It will last for a while. No sign of slippage, shifting very kwell. Will update later.

Instant Shudder Fixx

Can you update what is going on with LG Shudder Fixx by now?

 

[Odyssey.owner]

Can you update what is going on with LG Shudder Fixx by now?

Transmission works great, no complains whatsoever. I mean, day and night difference, compared with transmission shifting and slipping, and jerking ( trans was full of fresh DW1 ), when I just bought this van. So, Valvoline MaxLife + Lubegard Shudder Fix did actually fix all the problems I had.

I also have installed Magnefine inline ATF filter. Not sure how much it is helping, supposedly it is keeping transmission clean. Will see when I will cut that filter open, how much dirt is in it. If I have time to do such a thing.

I finally bought Foxwell NT 520, did full PCM reset. That didn't change much, I barely noticed any difference in transmission shifting. Maybe because it was already shifting good, thanks to Valvoline and LG shudder fix.

 

[jasonkim]

Thanks for the update.

 

[kselfri]

After ready many posts, and then doing several e-mail exchanges between myself and Valvevoline, Honda, & Idemitsu:

Valvoline will not say their fluid actually meets the Honda DW-1 specification. They will only say it's "suitable". They won't give any details of any tests they did to conclude that either. Suitable is only an opinion, not a provable fact. Meeting or not meeting a specification is a fact. They would not even say if they have the specs. So, all they can offer is an opinion, on the product they sell, btw. They are a well respected, quality supplier, so their opinion does carry some weight. Maybe it's ok, maybe not. It seems to have fixed some peoples issues according to this forum.

Honda has not approved any other fluid than their DW-1. I asked them explicitly if Maxlife is approved. They pointed back to their owner's manual to the "thou shalt use Honda genuine". I also asked them if their DW-1 is synthetic. They said NO. IT IS NOT SYNTHETIC. I've seen many posts where people say that it is, not sure where they are getting that notion. I have personally been using their fluid with no mechanical issues, but have noticed is oxidizes sooner than it should (gets a darker red and a burnt smell). That's doing drain/fill every 15K. If they simply made a synthetic fluid that didn't burn up, I would just buy theirs. That's the issue, it's not synthetic, and not that great on durability. I think whatever magic you have in the "use only genuine Honda" is lost when the fluid burns up. That's what led me to look for alternatives.

Idemitsu actually makes Honda's DW-1. Idemitsu has the specifications. Idemitsu states on their website their "H Plus" meets Honda's DW-1 specification. They don't say "suitable for". They meet the specs. They also confirmed their fluid is fully synthetic. They will be updating their labeling and website to point that out, bad marketing on their part for not saying it up front. You can buy the 5 quart jug on Amazon (a link from their website takes you to their Amazon storefront) for a reasonable price, though still more expensive than Valvoline.

My conclusion from all this is to go with the synthetic fluid. That leaves Valvoline or Idemitsu. One offers up "suitable for" and the other "meets specifications". Maybe experiment with both and see what works better for your vehicle and addresses your particular concerns.

 

[0dyfamily]

... So, Valvoline MaxLife + Lubegard Shudder Fix did actually fix all the problems I had.

 

[0dyfamily]

...I also asked them if their DW-1 is synthetic. They said NO. IT IS NOT SYNTHETIC. I've seen many posts where people say that it is, not sure where they are getting that notion.

Honda ATF DW-1 quart bottles sold in Canada actually say "synthetic" on them. Not so in the United States. I do not know if the formulation is different between the two countries, or there is a different legal criteria for product labeling.

... So, Valvoline MaxLife + Lubegard Shudder Fix did actually fix all the problems I had.

Lubegard impresses me for two reasons:

--First, they make absolutely no secret about what is in their product. As well, I am amazed that they did figure out a fiscally supportable way to use plant-based products to get the wax ester compounds (similar to whale oil) that make up the base chemical constituent in their products.

--Second, Lubegard products have worked as advertised for me. I've used their products to fix shifting difficulties, torque converter shudder and power steering fluid foaming issues in multiple vehicles.

Valvoline ATF continues to work for me. A couple years of very satisfactory operation in my 2005 Altima with Valvoline MaxLife ATF so far.

I'm now using Valvoline's Multi-Vehicle Import Synthetic ATF in our 2002 EX Ody. I think of this as a version of MaxLife with a slightly higher viscosity range. This ATF does not support ATF DW-1 to my knowledge, but does so for Honda ATF-Z1, which was the original factory fill in our 2002 EX and 2003 EX Odysseys.

Valvoline products are "priced right", i.e., I don't feel like I'm throwing away money by performing an every-other-oil change ATF drain/refill. This helps me remove contaminants held in solution in the ATF, as well as remove insolubles from the ATF, plus serves to refresh the additives package.

The key is, no matter which decently performing ATF you use, whether Valvoline products or Honda OEM, or other reputable brand like AmSOil or Red Line... service it. Our own RinconVTR posted Blackstone UOA for his ATF that supported 15,000 miles as a desired interval for a single drain/refill of the ATF in his Gen 3 Honda Odyssey. I follow that guidance for all of my family's vehicles.

OF

 

[Odyssey.owner]

UPDATE.
One last update on Valvoline Maxlife and Lubegard use.
First of all, I have to explain that this Odyssey is my first Odyssey. I did have some Civics and Accords, but these are totally different vehicles, and they shift gears differently.
So, basically I didn't know how Odyssey supposed to shift gears properly.
I bought my Odyssey used and abused, trans was shifting really bad, banging on downshifts, and slipping.
So, I tried to fix it without spending a lot of money for it.

First, changed ATF, used 12 quarts of Honda DW1. To my surprise, slippage got way worse.

Then, after reading about DW1's friction modifiers, I tried to replace it with Valvoline Maxlife.
It did fix slippage, not completely, but didn't really know how it supposed to be, so to me it seemed kinda fixed.

Banging downshifting was still there. So I tried Lubegard. It did help for a while, but problem would comeback after a month or less.

I tried to reset ECU, it seemed to help, but not for long either.
Tried to clean up trans with Seafoam cleaner. No result.
Replaced all 3 pressure switches. No result.

As a last resort, I replaced all 4 shift solenoids. There wasn't any transmission related codes indicating bad solenoids, but still I decided to try this last thing, before taking van to trans shop.
That was it. Now I know how Odyssey transmission supposed to shift properly. No slippage at all, no banging downshifting. Crisp pronounced upshifts and downshifts. 4th gear locking a bit late, but that's acceptable.

I don't know how long this transmission is going to last, because clutch packs are probably half dead. But for now, van drives perfectly.

 

[dbier]

UPDATE.
First, changed ATF, used 12 quarts of Honda DW1, 4 drain/fills. To my surprise, slippage got way worse.

Then, after reading about DW1's friction modifiers, I tried to replace it with Valvoline Maxlife.
It did fix slippage, not completely, but didn't really know how it supposed to be, so to me it seemed kinda fixed.

Banging downshifting was still there. So I tried Lubegard. It did help for a while, but problem would comeback after a month or less.

I tried to reset ECU, it seemed to help, but not for long either.
Tried to clean up trans with Seafoam cleaner. No result.
Replaced all 3 pressure switches. No result.

As a last resort, I replaced all 4 shift solenoids. There wasn't any transmission related codes indicating bad solenoids, but still I decided to try this last thing, before taking van to trans shop.
That was it. Now I know how Odyssey transmission supposed to shift properly. No slippage at all, no banging downshifting. Crisp pronounced upshifts and downshifts. 4th gear locking a bit late, but that's acceptable.

Great update! Glad you found a fix and appreciate you sharing all the details.

 

[John Clark]

Interesting fix. I just spend $1000 on all new genuine Honda solenoids on my 08. I had a slow shift going into Reverse from any other gear. I suspected one of the four shift solenoids and had an idea of which one but decided to just replace them all when I was in there. It solved my minor problem, as well.

The solenoids are critical for sure.

 

[OdyMember]

So just to clarify, you replaced solenoid A-B-C and the torque converter solenoid, right? Did you use OEM? The last one is quite expensive based on what I remember and I did not want to pour a bunch of money into something I was not sure about but since we have 2 members who eliminated problems by replacing these solenoid I'll give it a go too (I hope y'all won't say I'm a freeloader).

I few years ago I pulled all those and they were all within the manual's specs and were working. But seems like they do deteriorate overtime and cause foul shifting.

 

[Odyssey.owner]

So just to clarify, you replaced solenoid A-B-C and the torque converter solenoid, right?

Sorry, I absolutely forgot about 3 solenoids on top of the transmission. So, in total I replaced all 7 solenoids.
4 solenoids under the cover, and 3 outside of transmission.

Installed used OEM solenoids. Was lucky to find very fresh looking Ody LX, at the u-pull yard. Pulled lots of parts from it.

 

[John Clark]

View attachment 171533

View attachment 171534

Sorry, I absolutely forgot about 3 solenoids on top of the transmission. So, in total I replaced all 7 solenoids.
4 solenoids under the cover, and 3 outside of transmission.

Installed used OEM solenoids. Was lucky to find very fresh looking Ody LX, at the u-pull yard. Pulled lots of parts from it.

I replaced all the exact same solenoids but used new solenoids, gaskets and o-rings. That expensive pair on top was not suspect in my case but I bit the bullet and replaced them all. If I had to do it again I'd replace the wiring harness to them, as well.

 

[0dyfamily]

As always, real-world experiences with detailed outcomes from you two Odyssey maintainers.

Thanks, @Odyssey.owner and @John Clark .

OF