If it somehow lost it's link to the key fob, is there a way to re-link it without towing to the dealer?

 

The Immobilizer System indicator light comes on for a few seconds, then it goes out when you turn the ignition switch to the "On (II)" position. The Immobilizer System light will blink if it cannot recognize the key coding. This can happen if you have the correctly coded key but you also have other immobilizer keys on the same key ring or a metal key fob, or if metals from other keys get in the way while you try to start the engine. Use a key fob made of leather or plastic, and keep other keys away from the ignition and your master or valet key while starting your Honda.

I'm not sure with Honda but I do know with Porsche vehicles with immobilizer, if the car would not start and the immobilizer light stayed on ("Immobilizer Active"), generally the key head needed to be recoded (if you still had the code number for the original key head) or a replacement key head (that comes with new code number) needed to be used. To do this you needed Porsche's computer hooked to it. Now days, Porsche's need to be connected directly to Porsche's website to code new keys. I can't imagine Honda would make it so convoluted but all manufacturers are heading that way. Obviously you've already tried disconnecting and reconnecting the battery terminals. No answer...just some input.--Dave

 

There are three possible reasons that the green key immobilizer light is flashing. Either the immobilizer is not recognizing the key OR the car is not recognizing the immobilizer unit OR BOTH.

The immobilizer only deals with the starting function and checks a chip in the key. FOB remote operation is completely separate so one has nothing to do with the other. Thus, the fob can work for unlocking and locking while the immobilizer doesn't detect the proper key.

Did you actually replace the immobilizer unit on the van?? Even if you have the proper keys for a new immobilizer unit, after replacement of the immobilizer, you'd have to program the van to the new unit. Think about it, if this wasn't the case, a thief can just bring his own immobilizer and keys and swap it out on your van and take off with it.

It's rare that the van would somehow just forget your keys if you didn't touch the immobilizer. The data is stored in non-volatile memory so even if you disconnect the battery for 10 years, it'd still be there. Did you try all your keys? Maybe just one got messed up?

But in either case of a new immobilizer or the need to reprogram the keys to your existing immobilizer, you'd need the dealer or a locksmith with the proper equipment to work on the Honda immobilizer.

Hope this helps...

 

Trying to fix an 03 for my daughter. Ignition wouldn't turn and replaced the cylinder and keys. I used the original immobilizer but when the locksmith came he could not get the key he made to be recognized by his computer. Looking for ideas what to check next. The original immobilizer still looks like new.

 

I did not change the immobilizer, but I did remove the steering column. I also replaced all the wiring in the van and both fuse boxes inside and the fuse box under the hood. Basically the only harnesses not replaced were the engine harness and the ones in the roof. I did not change the computer or the immobilizer or anything in the steering column. I only have one original key and the valet. I have to get a second one cut/programmed. This van did sit for awhile and a previous idiot owner tried to get it running without doing it the proper way so they could try to sell it for more. I do not have the radio, HVAC controls, or airbags installed presently, but the immobilizer should not be looking for those should it? The only thing not working as far as running is the fuel being cut by the immobilizer. I can squirt some starting fluid in and it will run for a second, so I know everything else is good. Guess I will call a locksmith since I need the other key cut/programmed anyway.

 

Refer to TSB 09-016 - Immobilizer System (Type 7)
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/A09-016.PDF
http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A09-016.PDF

Your no start issue was likely caused when you replaced the driver's under dash fuse/relay box (MICU).

REPLACING THE DRIVER’S UNDER-DASH FUSE/RELAY BOX (MICU)

When you replace the under-dash fuse/relay box (MICU), you must use the HDS to register the IMOES unit with the immobilizer-keyless control unit; if you don’t, the engine won’t start.

 

Do you know for certain the original key worked with the van before?? I mean the seller could have just gotten a key cut and never paid for the programming to begin with. None of the things you changed out or removed should affect the immobilizer.

As for the fuel cut, yes that is what the immobilizer does. It shuts down the fuel pump when active.

In any case, yes reprogramming the keys to the immobilizer should fix it as long as there is nothing wrong with the immobilizer itself.

 

I would think it was the original, because it also has a valet key. I doubt these guys would have paid for a valet key. The van has 4 miles on it. It is brand new. Never even got prepped for sale at the dealer as far as I can tell. Still has the plastic all over it, covers on the visors, etc. Is it possible it was disabled as a new car and never enabled at the dealer?

 

Can a mobile locksmith do this, or is the HDS a dealer only thing? I believe this is the issue. Every once in awhile it will start for couple seconds as the bulletin says if done a certain way.

 

I'm not sure about a mobile locksmith, so you will need to contact them and ask them specifically if they have the expertise and equipment to handle this issue, but the dealer and anyone with the HDS and any required information (if needed and available from the iN) can do this.

 

May I ask why a brand new van with 4 miles on it would have these issues?? Can't the dealer take care of it under warranty??

 

I wish! It was flooded.

 

It was flooded on the dealers lot. I am close to having it done, but now these pesky dealer only programming issues are keeping me from having it done.

Does anyone know if this would allow me to reprogram the new airbag module as well as the keys?
New MVCI Toyota Tis Honda HDS Volvo Dice | eBay

Would be less trouble than towing it to the dealer.

 

Ah I see! I'm surprised a dealer will sell a flooded vehicle. I would think a dealer wouldn't be allowed to do that.

But in any event, no those devices on eBay are all a scam and junk. I tried a couple of them and no matter what they say, they work partially at best! And you have no hope with the security features because even with the genuine HDS the dealers use, you have to input a code that they get from the Honda in network that is date, vin, and attempt counter dependent to program any immobilizer related stuff.

You have to let the dealer do it. They may be able to give a brake code to get it started to drive it to the dealer though so you don't have to tow.

 

Still doesn't seem to make sense. If you have the original key and the original immobilizer unit it seems like it would still start (unless the immobilizer unit had water in it). Maybe the "reader" part behind the steering column trim is not mounted correctly or for whatever reason not "seeing" the key transponder?? Another thought: since you have replaced the entire harness and fuse boxes, are you sure the immobilizer is getting all the necessary power and ground inputs?--Dave

 

I read somewhere it needs to be reprogrammed if the drivers fuse box is replaced/removed.
Anyway, I got a brake code from the dealer for my Van.
So now I can start it using this method. At first it did not work because I was using the regular brake. Turns out you have to use the parking brake even though it has to be pressed twice to engage and then release (this counts as one actuation of the actual switch).
It worked like a charm, started right up.
I am waiting on more parts now....I need to get more done before I can take it to the dealer for proper programming of the transponder, cutting my new key and programming the remote functions.

So, to anyone going through an immobilizer issue like this, just contact the dealer. You will need to provide proof of ownership, and they can give you the brake code. I also got some other codes on the print out. Not sure what they do.

Immobilizer Brake Code: XX XX XX XX XX
Push Button Keyless: XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX
Immobi PCM Code: XXXX
Immobi Release P/W: XXXXX

 

I've never actually entered the brake code before. Can you explain exactly how you entered it with the parking brake based on the numbers in your print out. For example, if the brake code was 06 03 01 04 06, how would you actually put that in using the parking brake??

I can tell you the two immobilizer codes on your printout are what is required to be entered into the Honda HDS device when reprogramming immobilizer-affecting parts. It's a second layer of security above and beyond just having access to the HDS tool.

Also, did the dealer charge you to get these codes?

 

After starting the van once and then changing my fluids. It will not start again. Only now it acts a bit different. Before it would start for a second or two sometimes and then stop from the immobilizer (I read something somewhere about going quickly from position 0 to start or something that will make this happen).
With the brake code it fired right up. The next day after changing oil and trans fluid, it will no longer start and it does not even do the start for a second or two thing. Even though the brake code appears to still work by the dash, the engine will not start and now appears to be even worse than before because it never fires up even for a second.

Not sure what is going on now. I cleaned out the tank and all gas and flushed out the lines with new gas and that did nothing. I was thinking that water in the fuel could be a culprit. I checked for spark on one cylinder and it has it, although it did not seem normal as far as the pulse rates to me and seemed to stop during cranking. I checked all fuses and stuff. Nothing has changed since it ran unless something happened to the engine because of the flooding. It was running when I shut it off though and I only ran it for a minute or so and then immediately drained all the fluids.

I am lost as to what to do now. I cannot finish flushing my fluids because it won't start again. I called the dealer for the brake code and they gave me the same one I have. It is like the spark is no longer at the right time, or something happened to my motor. I get no codes from the computer with generic OBDII. It does sound different when cranking with the brake code or the quick turn method where it would start for a second before. It sounds like a very tiny little sputter from the exhaust, but it won't fire up.

I was going to do a compression check, but my tester would not fit those tiny spark plug holes.

Not being able to do what an HDS can do is completely irritating. Taking it to the dealer is too expensive when I am sure I know this van better than the tech at the dealer that wants $136 an hour. I also would have to pay a couple hundred to tow it there. At least if it would run again I could finish my flush, finish putting everything back together, and then just drive to the dealer for the proper final programming of things.

 

Is the Check Engine Light on? And after entering the brake code, does the flashing green key go off?
Was the last successful start the first and only time the engine was started since the flooding?

It almost sounds like the engine is hydrolocked. Let's hope I am wrong on this because that would be a very bad thing, similar to a broken timing belt. You should pull all the plugs and have a look down each of the holes to see if anything looks obviously no right in each cylinder.

 

Code's were free. To enter it you turn the key to position II. Press the park brake the number of times that match your first number. Then put the key to lock and then repeat for the other numbers. After the last is entered, the next twist will let u start.

 

I can't remember if the check engine light was on. My scanner tool pulled no codes, but I found out yesterday that Autoenginuity is not supporting 2013's yet (till November), so it may not be reading codes that are there and I was on a 2009 version (will be updating to 2011 version before next try). Beyond that I have to pay for an update. It should have still read generic codes though if any were present.

The immobilizer brake code is still working. I verified that last night. I put my stethoscope on an injector and I can hear it actuating while cranking after entering the brake code. It does not actuate if you crank without entering the code. I can also smell fuel and see some fumes when I took the intake tube off the throttle body.

I did only start the engine once. The van has never been driven.

The motor is not hydrolocked. It turns over fine. It was running when I shut it off. The oil was just milky when I checked it after the first start, so it needed to be flushed. I immediately drained it. Any water in the oil was just sitting at the bottom of the oil pan this whole time (under the oil), but then stirred up on the first start. Checking the oil prior, it looked perfect and new because everything was settled. This won't hydrolock it. Hydrolock is when water is on the combustion side and the pistons cant compress it and the engine will not turn over unless something breaks.

I did not run it for more than a minute or even bring it to operating temp because I had not replaced my cooling fans yet (don't feel smooth so I am changing them). It was not full of water or anything. When I drained the fluids about the right amount came out. It did have some water in though because it emulsified on the first run and made the oil milky. Like I said though it was not ran long and immediately drained. It really should not have hurt anything. It was still lubricating.

At this point I am down to the computer not firing the plugs at the right time for some reason, or there is a mechanical issue with the motor (turns over smooth and does not make any unusual noises.

My compression checker did not have the tiny 10mm plug adapter, but I picked one up last night, so I will be checking that and eliminating or confirming a mechanical issue. The timing marks on the cams and crank appear to be spot on. I thought that if a bearing or something in the timing belt circuit was stuck or something it might have jumped time, but I don't think so.

My next step is compression check and trying to see if there are codes my scanner did not pull and verifying the check engine light. It has to be engine spark control related or mechanical at this point. I know the fuel is not the issue. I also don't see how the PCM would be deliberately not working since the immobilizer code is still working and the battery power has been pulled many times. I was thinking at one time the computer may have let it run once, stored a code or had a problem and now will not run, but on every other car I ever worked on, the PCM starts from scratch once the battery is pulled for awhile. So, I don't think this would be the case, but who knows, maybe this PCM has built in memory and has to be reset by the dealer......wish I had the Honda MVIC. This would be easy.

 

I updated my scan tool software and still no generic OBD II codes present. However, with the key in position II the MIL light does not go out like the manual says it should after a couple seconds or upon starting (which it will not do). I suspect there are some codes that only a Honda scan tool can pull or if I pay for the Honda enhancements for mine. So, who knows, this thing could fire right up once it gets the Honda MVIC hooked to it and all the modules properly programmed (Multi-function in drivers fuse panel, Airbag module, ACM?, Immobilizer, & keys, Engine computer if updates needed, and whatever else). I am going to finish putting it all back together and tow it to the dealer I guess.

 

It seems to me that I've seen it somewhere in another thread, or in another Honda forum, that the brake code that dealer gives you, is either one time use or one day use thing - can't recall exactly. The main purpose of it is to let you start the engine and drive to the dealer right away.
If you have used it already, you need to get another one from them on the day you'll be driving there.

 

I dont think so. I got it to run again today. I am still diagosing the problem......
The code never changes either. I have gotten it from different dealers days apart and it is the same. It still works. I did a few things today to narrow down my problems. I need to get some new plugs and take another compression check.

 

I confirmed tonight that the immobilizer kills spark as well as fuel. I also confirmed that the brake code does not change and still works. I tested all of my plugs and wiring tonight, but they would only fire if the brake code was used.

I also found my problem.....bad motor with low compression. 1 cc of oil in each cylinder and clean the plugs and it started again. It would not start a second time. The plugs always come out soaked with oil. Cylinders are running 80 to 120 psi, even after running it for awhile and letting things clean out.

So, I am in the market for a motor now It's a shame because this one only has 4 miles on it and I was told it did not get water in it, which it did and ruined it. I should have been done with the van this week, everything else is back to perfect new condition.

 

Like I suspected earlier, your symptoms totally sounded like hydrolocked motor. Now the low compression confirms it. Are you sure the dealer didn't know this already before deciding to sell it for cheap?

 

It was not hydrolocked and I did not buy it from the dealer. They do not sell flood cars. Their insurance companies do. It got salt water in the cylinder apparently and it just sat in there eating away because no one cared untill I got it. Unfortunatly it was advertised as no water getting into the engine. So, now I have to deal with that. If it had been flushed out right away it would have been fine. I bought it from a rebuilder dealer that advertised it this way, so I have contacted them. Hopefully they will make good in some way.....

Hydrolock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

If it was not hydrolocked (by the way, yes, I know what that means), I don't see how it can lose that much compression just by sitting in salt water. I mean I understand that it will corrode the insides of the cylinder and I understand that it would not be good, but how does it lose over half of the psi in a compression test just having been sitting in salt water? It's hard to believe that much metal has been corroded away. Water in the cylinder forcing it to pop a leak would seem more likely.

In any event, I guess whether hydrolocked or not is a moot point. What's done is done. Can I ask how much you got the van for? Must have been a really good deal for you to go through with the purchase knowing it was flooded.

 

It was a good deal considering my labor is free to me. Saved myself nearly 18k or so and I used all new parts to make it just like new again. The motor is going to eat into this though and was not expected.
I am picking up a borescope tonight so I can look inside It takes pics and videos too. I have to decide on repairing or replacing it.

 

Too bad about the engine but it sounds like even with that expense, you'll still be ahead of the game. You still ought to take at least one head off and look at the cylinder walls.--Dave

 

I looked around inside with a borescope last night. I will pull the heads off next. It appears that some water got in the cylinders, but that may be it. The cams and rockers and stuff are perfectly new looking. The combustion side of the valves had some rust spots on them, but they may be ok. The seat area looked pretty clean still. I think the main problem is some pitting on the cylinder walls though and I can see where the rings were sitting.

There may still be hope to rescue the 4 mile motor if the crank looks ok, and I think there is a good chance it will. I think the issue may be isolated to the combustion chamber only. I may be able to get by with some honing and a set of rings or just pistons rings and a bore. We will see once I get it tore down a bit more and drop the pan.