[Skaunit]

Ok quick rundown of my ody so far.
2008 touring purchased early November 2021 with 159k on the clock.

It needed an alignment and I wanted an inspection, so I took it to a “reputable” well reviews Indy shop, though NOT a Honda specialist. Day of the appointment the CEL came on. They did alignment and scanned the code, and did a multipoint inspection. Code was for a bad cat (bank 1 upstream), and the only other thing recommended from inspection was transmission fluid flush. So I bought the replacement cat online (for $300 less than they quoted) and had them do that and the tranny fluid.
I checked the oil and found it to be pretty low (side note: this dipstick is really kind of odd, hard to read) so I topped it off. I don’t know why they didn’t catch that on the inspection but I lost some faith in that shop now.

It drove fine for about a month including one road trip, save for a few rough starts and rough idles.

Then, about a week ago the VSA warning lights would go off when we start it cold first thing in the morning, but when we shut off the engine and turn it back on that would go away. Then a few days ago the CEL lit back up while I was at work and wife read the codes. One was for an O2 sensor (she forgot to write down the code so can’t be positive which one) and the other was P0305. She then cleared the codes, but the misfire one came back. Well I pulled the cyl 5 plug and coil, and the plug looked fairly ok, but with just a little pitting and buildup on the face of it (facing the piston). I also noticed that it didn’t take much force to crack the spark plug loose. I pulled cyl 4 also which took quite a bit more force to loosen. I swapped the plugs and coils between 4-5, cleared the codes, and all was fine for a few days, even no more VSA lights on cold startup.
Now today, CEL came back with codes P0305, and P0139. And later, the Vsa warning came on mid-driving and the van “started shaking and driving terrible” and they pulled over and restarted it and it was ok after that. I drove it this evening, no Vsa lights, and it seemed to drive fine.

So after reading though this TSB http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/A13-080.PDF
And some forum posts about the VCM lawsuit, it does seem that my 2008 is well past any kind of warranty coverage, however I’m wondering if it is worth going to the dealership to see if they can reprogram the PCM? Also saw some forum posts suggesting a TB cleaning and then a re-learning of idle with a 2-way scan tool?
I’m wondering if it would be worth it for me to change the coil packs and plugs all around? Or should I get some diagnostics first? I haven’t checked the oil lately but will tomorrow.

thanks for any help folks.

 

[WiiMaster]

You don't need a PCM reprogram or anything related to the lawsuit settlement. What you need to do is read the VCM megathread and disable your VCM. I can almost guarantee you that's what caused your oil level to get low (it was burned by VCM). The oil it burned went through the cat, killing it as well.

See megathread:

PISTON RINGS/MISFIRES/FOULED SPARK PLUGS - The VCM mega...

This thread explains all the key details regarding VCM. Rather than re-explaining everything about VCM to every new forum member, they can simply be directed here. Self-service FTW! While there will be plenty of discussion in this thread, this first post contains the key information, so reading...

www.odyclub.com

 

[Skaunit]

Thanks @WiiMaster . I read/skimmed that post back when we were shopping for odysseys, but going back and re-reading it, it all makes sense. So I think my best corse of action for now will be to buy a vcm muzzler, change the oil, and change the spark plugs.

 

[WiiMaster]

Thanks @WiiMaster . I read/skimmed that post back when we were shopping for odysseys, but going back and re-reading it, it all makes sense. So I think my best corse of action for now will be to buy a vcm muzzler, change the oil, and change the spark plugs.

Yes. That should take care of your issues and you'll have a nice, reliable V6 for years to come. Remember to use the proper NGK plugs and make sure they're not counterfeit.

You'll also want to keep tabs on the oil level after disabling VCM to ensure that the oil burning decreases or completely stops. If it doesn't, further measures may be needed, but that is rarely the case.

 

[Skaunit]

Yes. That should take care of your issues and you'll have a nice, reliable V6 for years to come. Remember to use the proper NGK plugs and make sure they're not

I saw in another post someone say something about making sure you get the exact oem spark plugs even though there expensive. Could you possibly either link me to a good source or what model/spec I’m looking for? Searching year/make/model on store sites gives 15-20 options…

 

[hpark21]

I saw in another post someone say something about making sure you get the exact oem spark plugs even though there expensive. Could you possibly either link me to a good source or what model/spec I’m looking for? Searching year/make/model on store sites gives 15-20 options…

"expensive" is relative since spark plugs are not very expensive to begin with.
I believe NGK 3657 (laser iridium) is one you want at $9.29 at Rock auto today. Is it "way" more expensive than let's say $5 spark plugs? yes, but we are still talking about less than $60 for all 6 of them.

More Information for NGK 3657

www.rockauto.com

 

[thscott]

Ok quick rundown of my ody so far.
2008 touring purchased early November 2021 with 159k on the clock.

It needed an alignment and I wanted an inspection, so I took it to a “reputable” well reviews Indy shop, though NOT a Honda specialist. Day of the appointment the CEL came on. They did alignment and scanned the code, and did a multipoint inspection. Code was for a bad cat (bank 1 upstream), and the only other thing recommended from inspection was transmission fluid flush. So I bought the replacement cat online (for $300 less than they quoted) and had them do that and the tranny fluid.
I checked the oil and found it to be pretty low (side note: this dipstick is really kind of odd, hard to read) so I topped it off. I don’t know why they didn’t catch that on the inspection but I lost some faith in that shop now.

It drove fine for about a month including one road trip, save for a few rough starts and rough idles.

Then, about a week ago the VSA warning lights would go off when we start it cold first thing in the morning, but when we shut off the engine and turn it back on that would go away. Then a few days ago the CEL lit back up while I was at work and wife read the codes. One was for an O2 sensor (she forgot to write down the code so can’t be positive which one) and the other was P0305. She then cleared the codes, but the misfire one came back. Well I pulled the cyl 5 plug and coil, and the plug looked fairly ok, but with just a little pitting and buildup on the face of it (facing the piston). I also noticed that it didn’t take much force to crack the spark plug loose. I pulled cyl 4 also which took quite a bit more force to loosen. I swapped the plugs and coils between 4-5, cleared the codes, and all was fine for a few days, even no more VSA lights on cold startup.
Now today, CEL came back with codes P0305, and P0139. And later, the Vsa warning came on mid-driving and the van “started shaking and driving terrible” and they pulled over and restarted it and it was ok after that. I drove it this evening, no Vsa lights, and it seemed to drive fine.

So after reading though this TSB http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/A13-080.PDF
And some forum posts about the VCM lawsuit, it does seem that my 2008 is well past any kind of warranty coverage, however I’m wondering if it is worth going to the dealership to see if they can reprogram the PCM? Also saw some forum posts suggesting a TB cleaning and then a re-learning of idle with a 2-way scan tool?
I’m wondering if it would be worth it for me to change the coil packs and plugs all around? Or should I get some diagnostics first? I haven’t checked the oil lately but will tomorrow.

thanks for any help folks.

Hopefully they did not actually flush your transmission. What should be done is called a drain and fill. It’s very important that you do that on a periodic basis.

hopefully when you bought the van the timing belt and related timing components had already been replaced.

 

[MrRangerZr1]

Thanks @WiiMaster . I read/skimmed that post back when we were shopping for odysseys, but going back and re-reading it, it all makes sense. So I think my best corse of action for now will be to buy a vcm muzzler, change the oil, and change the spark plugs.

And an Italian tune up with some B12 chemtool fuel system cleaner in the gas tank

 

[Skaunit]

Hopefully they did not actually flush your transmission. What should be done is called a drain and fill. It’s very important that you do that on a periodic basis.

hopefully when you bought the van the timing belt and related timing components had already been replaced.

Yea that’s what was shown on the paperwork, a drain and fill, not an actual flush.

And an Italian tune up with some B12 chemtool fuel system cleaner in the gas tank

Never heard of this called an Italian tune up but yea, that’s what I did.


So Update:
I started off by changing the oil, changing all spark plugs using NGK Laser Iridium 7751 plugs, and installing the VCMTuner 2. Was still getting VSA errors and CEL, so I replaced all coil packs.

For a bit it seemed like that did it, but then the past week we are still getting VSA system error and CEL upon a cold startup. Turning it off and restarting seems to always clear the Vsa system error. Today the car was driving really nice despite the CEL being on, but what’s weird is the CEL went out on its own but then the idle got really rough. The code is now P0305, which has been the most consistent code we have seen so far. I’m thinking cylinder 5 fuel Injector, but I’m not sure. Anyone have any more troubleshooting ideas? Thanks!

 

[0dyfamily]

"Italian tune-up":

You're going to need to keep driving it for a while. Remediation of this problem takes time, as the fresh oil change and its package of additives (namely the fresh oil itself) are helping to clean the oil control ring on each piston in your Odyssey's V6. Detergents in the oil can help with capture of dirt and deposits by the filter. Dispersents in that oil additives package will also keep those removed deposits in solution (in your oil) if they can't be captured by the oil filter. Your oil will get dirtier looking more quickly over the next few oil changes.

Although I have a gallon of B12 Chemtool in my garage oil cabinet, I'm a once-per-year Chevron Techron user for fuel system cleanup. In your case, B12 in the gas tank surely can't hurt, and can only help if you suspect an injector not functioning optimally due to deposits.

P0305 means the PCM thinks the number 5 cylinder is misfiring. We have had instances where Odyclub members found that the PCM had not detected the correct cylinder. I would be of a mind to check all of the spark plugs again, not just #5.

If you find a fouled plug, replace (or clean) that one plug, try running it again.

VCM, as applied to the Odyssey, is a real worrisome addition of technology. It's working in our 8th Gen V6 Accord, but that engine operates under different parameters (namely, less throttle all of the time ... it's a much lighter vehicle).

OF

 

[Skaunit]

Thanks for the insight OF, you seem very knowledgeable.
So I wrote that when I was very tired but wanted to get the post bumped and see if anyone had any initial advice. Here’s a more specific timeline:

Around Dec 30 to Jan 2: I replaced all 6 spark plugs, did a full oil change with penzoil high mileage blend 5w20, and installed the VCMTuner 2. Sometime during the week following I used a 15oz can of B12 fuel system cleaner before a full-up.
For a few days or so after this car seemed to run better but then the codes came back (multiple cylinder misfires) and it would still throw the VSA warning message.

So then, Jan 6th, I replaced all 6 coil packs. I cleared the codes and this seemed to do the trick for a bit. But then over the last 3-4 days P0305 came back, and the VSA warning keeps coming back, more so now than ever really. It really idles rough too, but not all the time. I read that another cause of misfire could be the fuel injectors, so I’m thinking about that now. I watched the first 3 minutes of this video:

and after that I decided to pop open the top of my intake manifold and found a little fuel pooled up in both cylinder 4 and 5 areas (I think).
I took a video:

Streamable Video

Watch this video on Streamable.

streamable.com

So I’m debating about spending the money right now on 6 new injectors, or just the back 3, or just one for cylinder 5? And can anyone help link me to a guide on cleaning the intake manifold and throttle body while I’m at it? And I guess I’ll have to do the throttle position re-learn too? I’m thinking it maybe be a good idea if I do a full ecu reset. Should I get a compression test done before I throw more money at this thing?


For a TLDR: we still get really rough idle and worse gas mileage (12mpg) after changing plugs, coils, and oil, and VCMtuner2. Looking for advice on fuel injectors and/or next steps. Wife and mother in law are ready to get rid of it and get a newer minivan, which I really don’t want to do in this market.

 

[Bear3412]

..... see if anyone had any initial advice.

....check all of the spark plugs again, not just #5.

 

[Skaunit]

Right. I can pull them out and check them but since they’ve only been there 2 weeks what am I looking for? What do I do about it? If #5 looks worse than the others, or if another one looks worse, what do I do with that information? It doesn’t make sense to replace any again…

 

[WiiMaster]

What brand were the replacement coils? If anything other than NGK, Denso, or Hitachi, they're suspect.

 

[0dyfamily]

If a plug is fouled, clean it, re-install. If that cylinder has a piston with an oil-fouled oil control ring, the spark plug resident in that cylinder will become oil-fouled more quickly than its brother plugs operating without ring fouling (or the other cylinders have fouling, but of a lesser severity).

Although you have the P0305 code, there is the possibility that the PCM is not only alerting you to the wrong cylinder, it's possible that more than one cylinder (and their spark plugs) may be affected.

These things aren't perfect. We've seen posts on this Odyclub where members seeking help on VCM-related issues noted a single code, and had more than one fouled plug due to VCM-related piston ring fouling. We've also seen threads where the PCM threw out a bunch of codes, as if multiple cylinders were in trouble, but upon inspection, a lesser number of spark plugs displayed fouling issues.

Your pistons, besides the rings for maintaining compression, also have that oil control ring at the very bottom. In short, the oil control ring is like a windshield wiper for its cylinder, strictly controlling the small amount of oil required by the cylinder wall to allow proper lubrication for the piston rings situated above it on the piston. Once fouled with enough deposits due to VCM operation, it will take quite some time for these to become uncontaminated. Until then, they can't fully control the oil allowed into the combustion space of the cylinder, and you may still experience fouling of one or more spark plugs.

You may also experience excessive oil consumption ... but the thing we seek is that this will become less and less over time as the fouled oil-control ring(s) shed the fouling over time thanks to the installation of your chosen VCM defeat device.

Man, it sucks to have this happen on the family hauler. Makes me glad that we are holding on to our old 2002 EX Odyssey. No VCM. No problems. It just runs like a normal all-cylinders-firing-all-the-time V6. On the minus side, it's old as heck ... it could almost pass for Clark Griswold's Vacation-mobile.

OF

 

[WiiMaster]

Man, it sucks to have this happen on the family hauler. Makes me glad that we are holding on to our old 2002 EX Odyssey. No VCM. No problems. It just runs like a normal all-cylinders-firing-all-the-time V6. On the minus side, it's old as heck ... it could almost pass for Clark Griswold's Vacation-mobile.

Same here...non-VCM vehicles like ours better get a special value increase. A tax for the built in VCM disable

 

[Skaunit]

What brand were the replacement coils? If anything other than NGK, Denso, or Hitachi, they're suspect.

I got the autozone duralast premium pack with lifetime warranty due to availability.

I’ve been watching a lot of the YouTube videos under the search “Honda odyssey missfire”. One guy checked his EGR valve and it was stuck from carbon deposit, so I can check that easy, another video pointed to a valve adjustment, and another one to a timing adjustment. I also learned I had the banks mixed up. Doh!

so tomorrow morning I will pull 4,5, and 6 plugs and check them out, and check oil consumption, and check the EGR valve…

i just need to get the missfire under control so we can continue driving it.

 

[WiiMaster]

Aftermarket coils are a big no no. If you still have the originals, I'd put them back as they are most likely just fine.

 

[thscott]

I agree. You bought crappy coils and that could be your issue.

 

[Ted]

I got the autozone duralast premium pack with lifetime warranty due to availability.

Look for logos stamped or molded into them. Sometimes there are pleasant surprises in the AZ boxes. They buy, they don't manufacture. I recall one guy who wound up going to AZ for a crank position sensor, found it had the Mitsubishi mark, same as Honda OE. Sometimes.