Wow. in the sidebar they list the test results of the Toyota and they have some tags for the other vehicles that did not show the results, so I printed the review and didn't pay any more attention to it. It is 71 pages long!!!! It includes all the comments from readers..... what a waste of paper.

 

I don't understand whey they chose a Odyssey EX to do this comparison with. They really dinged it for lack of features (no power liftgate, no blue tooth, etc.), but if they moved up to the EX-L they would had everything they wanted to see and the EX-L would still have been the 2nd cheapest van in the comparison. According to my quick math, when you knock the ody down on the price component, but raise it up on the features component (assuming the EX-L has everything you want), the difference would be roughly 3 points and move it into first place.

Not that I need a magazine to validate my choice (especially as I find the Sienna SE hideously ugly), but I just found their choice very odd.

 

I 100% agree with you. Lets knock the Oddy for lack of features, when an Oddy EXL would have had those features (back up cam, blue tooth and power tailgate, etc) they were complaing about. An Oddy EXL would have still been far below their $40k test threshold. In fact it would have been cheaper than the $38k+ MSRP Quest that was in the test. That test lost all credibility right there.

 

I don't put much into CR automotive reviews... gas mileage reports in all automotive reviews depend on too many circumstances I only go by the EPA official #'s when comparing vehicles since their tests are all done exactly.

 

Oh no! What will the Sienna owners say now?

 

Who cares, LOL! If people want a 2 (out of 5) star crash rated front passenger vehicle (2011 Sienna) for their family vehicle, than so be it. The sticker on the Sienna I test drove had only 2 stars for right front passenger. Thats pretty poor for a new 2011 vehicle. The overall was 4 stars, still not as good as the Oddy's best in class 5 star.

 

Man, these auto publications are driving me crazy--they are so clueless about minivans. Once again, they test a Sienna SE, which nobody is buying because you can't get them with features that actual minivan drivers want--like leather, an integrated DVD system, etc.

I know the SE is not selling because I truly live in the land of the minivan, and I see new Sienna's literally all the time--and I never, ever, see a SE. And then when I look at dealer inventories, they aren't ordering them either, which tells you that they aren't selling. The LE and XLE appear to be doing just fine.

Anyway, I also don't really understand the notion that the Odyssey is overpriced in today's market, given what people spend on SUVs especially. For the price I actually spent on my Odyssey EXL-RES--not the MSRP, but the $33,058 I paid, which included splash guards and wheel locks--I think its a decent value considering the content.

 

Once again, i am amazed by the ego over a minivan.

Deal with it, the new odyssey simply is not as good as new Sienna.

 

Looking at your sig, so the 4WD Sienna does affect the efficiency by a full 10%? Is this a full time system? Do you know how much more added wt. it adds?

And have you driven in the Sierra's during inclement conditions to test the advantages?

 

Settle down you 4th gen guys. Its KK. We all old timers know him very well. He is rich and he only says FACTS and calls others homers but he infact is very harmless. You all would learn to know him too. He comes in here once in a while. Stirs up the pot and then vanishes till he returns again. He is so bloody rich that he just bought the 3rd gen oddy to prove to us homers that the Sienna is superior to the Oddy. Just search for all his posts and read up. Rather entertaining I might add.



BTW. Moved to minivan comparisons.

 

BTW. Moved to minivan comparisons.

But this is comparison thread

And thanks to the mod it is now in the right section as well, so knock yourself out, type as you please

 

For what its worth, the two nameplates in my driveway are a Honda...and a Toyota. I have a 2007 Camry Hybrid and I love it. Its been absolutely flawless. (The new NHTSA crash ratings are concerning, however...but my vehicle is 4.5 years old and nobody but me is really ever in it, and front driver was the one area it did well.) In 85,000 miles I have had literally one mechanical problem and it was quickly and ably fixed--correctly (in contrast to my many GM experiences prior to swearing them off).

My point in saying that is that I am not a Honda fanboy--I rather detest the Accord, I think Honda's hybrid strategy is all wrong, I'd take a Highlander over a Pilot, and Venza over a CrossTour. (I'd stick with Honda in the sub/compact/CUV categories.)

But in the minivan category...I just don't think its a close call. This bears repeating--if you have more than 2 children, I just don't understand why you'd buy a Sienna and purposefully limit your seating flexibility dramatically. And I don't understand how anyone can objectively study the quality of materials in the two vans and conclude the Sienna is not significantly inferior. I suppose dash layout is more a matter of taste--but the Odyssey is logical and neat, the Sienna is haphazard, not intuitive and scattershot. The MID screen is quite small and hard to see. And the steering on anything but the SE...honestly, virtually everything Buick is producing save the Lucerne has much better road feel. I spent 10 days driving a Sienna so it isn't like this is all based on a 10 minute test drive. And on day 10, I still couldn't find the right controls by feel, I couldn't adjust to how loose the steering was and how difficult it was to keep the thing planted straight ahead at highway speed, and I grew sick of my 62 year old mother who was sitting in the middle seat of the 2nd row b*tching constantly about how uncomfortable it was. (BTW--never once has complained about our Odyssey's in an even bigger sample, she thinks its just fine.)

So...I do feel a little passion on this subject. I certainly can accept that people still will make a different choice, but I tend to believe that the more informed a customer is and the more they experience both vehicles, the more likely they are to buy Honda. I feel that previous-gen Ody buyers who dismiss the new model on looks alone are really making a mistake and should at least give it a long chance and multiple drives to compare. How you can go from an old Odyssey, with its terrific handling, to a current-gen Sienna is just beyond me.

 

But in the minivan category...I just don't think its a close call. This bears repeating--if you have more than 2 children, I just don't understand why you'd buy a Sienna and purposefully limit your seating flexibility dramatically.

But what if you only have 2 kids (of which the Average American or Canadian family tends to have), or if you're kids don't require LATCH seats anymore? In either/both of those conditions the "advantage" of the Honda is irrelevant.

And I don't understand how anyone can objectively study the quality of materials in the two vans and conclude the Sienna is not significantly inferior.

I do. I don't expect the somewhat visibly inferior dash/plastic panels to fail any sooner than the "better" looking Honda interior to the "quality" is actually irrelevant. Also, the "look" of anything is at least somewhat objective. I can't get over the hideous exterior of the Honda nor the more ugly wheel options, but that's just me.

Furthermore, you are discounting numerous significant features the Sienna has that the Honda does not (intelligent key, 6 spd in ALL models, dual moonroof, rain sensing wipers, AWD just to name a few).

Did it occur to you that in the objective study of the interior, that those who chose the Sienna viewed the "lower quality look" of the Sienna's interior (but love the exterior look over the horrid Honda) as a reasonable trade off for many very significant features simply not available in the Honda???

I suppose dash layout is more a matter of taste--but the Odyssey is logical and neat, the Sienna is haphazard, not intuitive and scattershot. The MID screen is quite small and hard to see.

Subjective, we have no problem with the dash on the Sienna and we can see the MID just fine.

So...I do feel a little passion on this subject. I certainly can accept that people still will make a different choice, but I tend to believe that the more informed a customer is and the more they experience both vehicles, the more likely they are to buy Honda.

I'm a car and detail nut, I guess I'm just one of those that fit outside your broad statement. See my comment above about the trade off of features vs. "apparent" quality of materials as one example of you possibly not exhibiting an informed or unbiased decision.

I feel that previous-gen Ody buyers who dismiss the new model on looks alone are really making a mistake and should at least give it a long chance and multiple drives to compare.

We didn't dismiss the new Honda solely based on exterior looks (although that didn't help Honda's case). It's a complex problem with no simple answer which requires carefully weighing the pro's and con's of each and coming to what is for sure an imperfect decision when looked at from the "outside".

What would be a perfect decision? Take the interior quality of the Honda with the substantially better exterior looks of the Sienna and the signicant extra features of the Sienna and mash them together into a new super-van.

How you can go from an old Odyssey, with its terrific handling, to a current-gen Sienna is just beyond me.

My wife's new AWD Sienna handles at least as good as her old Touring. It's also faster, quieter and generally a better vehicle to drive. Comparing old Ody to new Sienna the Toyota wins hands down and she much prefers to drive the new van.

In terms of handling new vs. new? The reviews flip flop between the 2 so in terms of journalistic debate, the jury is still out. We have none of the handling problems you mention in your 10 day trip with the Toyota.

In the end, neither van is perfect, and certain things that are valuable to one, are of no value to others. Hopefully Honda will fix the horrible exterior and add the features missing as compared to the Sienna. If they do, we'll have a Honda next and the circle of life will go round and round.....

 

Mike--
Can you point to a single review/comparison of the Sienna LE/XLE (NOT SE) that finds the Sienna's handling better than the Odyssey's, or in the event of a non-comparsion test, praises it? I believe I've read ever piece of paper written on these vans, or darn close, and I can't recall a single one.

I will concede that the auto journalists believe that the Sienna SE has a handling/steering advantage over every other van in the market. But the LE/XLE Sienna has nothing whatsoever in common with that van in terms of handling and steering--might as well not even be called a Sienna.

If you require AWD, then obviously the Sienna is your van as well. The take rate on that option is very low but that niche does exist. Similar to the one advantage that I believe the Chrysler vans have on both the Japanese ones--stow n go. If you constantly are converting your van from a cargo hauler to a people mover, then those vans are for you. My 75 year old father bought one for exactly that reason--but let's face it, he's not the target demo for these vehicles.

But--for the masses--the vast majority of people who are buying vans, I stand by my belief that the more time a consumer spents with each, the more like he/she is to choose the Honda. From what I've seen of sales figures so far, it appears that I am correct, too.

 

Mike--
Can you point to a single review/comparison of the Sienna LE/XLE (NOT SE) that finds the Sienna's handling better than the Odyssey's, or in the event of a non-comparsion test, praises it? I believe I've read ever piece of paper written on these vans, or darn close, and I can't recall a single one.

As per KK's post above, the Sienna Ltd posts better numbers. Is the Sienna steering overboosted? Yep, I agree. But for handling items there are at least certain things the Sienna does better.

If you require AWD, then obviously the Sienna is your van as well. The take rate on that option is very low but that niche does exist. Similar to the one advantage that I believe the Chrysler vans have on both the Japanese ones--stow n go.

Aside from AWD, Would you place any value at all at items such as
1. Dual Moonroof
2. Drivers side leg airbag
3. Intelligent Key
4. Rain sensing wipers
5. Adaptive Cruise control
6. LED tail lights

None of these rather significant features are available on the Honda period. Steering feel (not handling) and looks of the plastic aside, these features were at least significand to us and offset possibly "cheap" feeling plastics.

But--for the masses--the vast majority of people who are buying vans, I stand by my belief that the more time a consumer spents with each, the more like he/she is to choose the Honda. From what I've seen of sales figures so far, it appears that I am correct, too.

Assuming this is true and the numbers hold out, it makes neither the Honda perfect nor the Sienna junk. Life is full of choices and as I've mentioned, neither van is perfect.

But making blanket statements such as

"And I don't understand how anyone can objectively study the quality of materials in the two vans and conclude the Sienna is not significantly inferior. "

is simply not accurate as there are numerous significant areas that are "plus" on the Sienna side.

 

For someone who is actually researching between the two vans for my wife, I have to dig pretty deep between the personal attacks to find actual opinions and comparisons!

For the last gen vans when we shopped in '08, the Odyssey was the clear winner for both of us and my wife chose the Odyssey - the ride and drive were noticeably better than the Sienna Limited AWD.

I am looking forward to round 2 of test drives this weekend with the Buick Enclave CXL-2 AWD as the wild card choice.

So far for the vans, we both find the exterior design of the Sienna to be more aesthetically pleasing to the eye and cohesive from front to back - it seems the Honda designers couldn't make up their mind about designing a North American minivan or a JDM/ROW Odyssey. We like the rear end design of the Odyssey, but find the headlights and grille design to be 'wimpy' for the lack of a better word.

From the point of view of feature and specs, the Sienna holds an advantage for us as well (comparing the Limited trim to the Touring Elite): the availability of AWD plus the smart key system for entry and ignition. The Toyota V6 has better bhp and torque figures, though both feature 6-speed auto boxes. And it looks like only Toyota has the power folding outside mirrors, which IMHO make parking on the streets a bit safer.

We've only had a cursory look at the Sienna's interior and immediately, my wife found the 'hump' between the two 2nd row seats with the middle seat removed to be an odd feature or oversight - we've not decided which. Though we're pretty sure our kids (very nearly 5 years old and very nearly 18 months old) can clear it, it's still there - but then again, our Odyssey leaves unsightly tracks with cheap covers over them with the 2nd row center seat removed.

We've not had the chance to look inside the Gen4 Odyssey, so this weekend's visit to the dealer will be our first chance for an up close and personal inspection.

And of course the test drives will be the ultimate decision point.

So I hope to have some salient points to add to this discussion in a few days' time - assuming people don't completely lose it and force the mods to lock down the thread!

 

I don't know what "hump" you are talking about, unless you weren't looking at a Limited, in which case I know exactly what you mean. The Sienna's that have the 8th seat do have that odd bracket left obstructing the center isle, but the Limiteds get the Lounge seating with a clear isle. Also, I wanted to make sure you were aware that unlike the previous Sienna generation, an AWD Limited is not the "fully loaded" model. I'm especially aware of this because I have heard of several buyers getting the AWD Limited and then realizing they didn't have things like radar cruise, power third row seats, hill start assist, etc. I paid close attention to this since I know I would go for the FWD. Not to mention whether or not you want runflats.

 

While we are on topic of handling.

Here is list of worst 10 handling car that MT tested in 2011. Take a closer look.

The 10 Worst Handling Cars Motor Trend Tested in 2010 - WOT

2011 Odyssey Touring/Elite was 9th worse, while the 2011 Odyssey EX-L was 5th worse. No mentioning of Sienna anywhere.

I rest my case.

We are all biased one way or the other. The simple fact is that the current gen Odyssey handles worse than comparable Sienna.

While Odyssey may have better steering response. It does not handle as well as current gen Sienna.

This is hard fact.

People goes into test drive with pre-conceived notion that Honda would typically out handle their toyota counterpart. Toyota has changed quiet a bit since those boring days. That my friend is the truth.

Fact is very simple
1. Sienna has better engine and transmission
2. Sienna has better structure
3. Sienna rides and handles better
4. Sienna has better brakes
5. Sienna has more features that is not available on odyssey.

So based on MFLetou's logic, we all should be buying sienna then D

Since after all detail research and with an unbiased test drive, Sienna performed better than Odyssey. Simple truth isn't it.

Cars are sold mainly based on perception. Reality is vastly different if one given the chance.

 

While we are on topic of handling.

Fact is very simple
1. Sienna has better engine and transmission
2. Sienna has better structure
3. Sienna rides and handles better
4. Sienna has better brakes
5. Sienna has more features that is not available on odyssey.

That is your opinion. We all have them and doesn't mean they are right.

 

I see this sometimes contentious thread has been dormant for a few days and I hesitate to reopen the can of worms...

But in a previous post, I did mention that I would post our findings after back to back test drives of the Odyssey and Sienna and a promise is a promise; I hope the comments below will help others who are cross shopping the two vans as well.

So in bullet form, here's what we found:

Odyssey (Touring test driven, we would get the Elite if we go with the Honda)
- Drives very similarly to her current '08 Touring, the familiarity was a plus
- Didn't notice any difference the 6-speed over the current drive train, but then again it's a minivan so it's not like testing at the Nurburging
- We both disliked the new central controller, it was obnoxious looking for the lack of a better description; we appreciate where Honda is going because on a previous Audi and the MB, we had the MMI and the COMAND and it does help to centralize control, but the Honda device is awkward looking
- What is up with the little quarter windows ahead of the front doors? We didn't notice them before but the moment we got on the road, they appeared in our peripheral vision - maybe we just have very acute senses on the periphery but that was pretty poor design decision in our opinion
- The nav screen placement and size are vastly improved, what a great display
- The 2nd row middle seat is noticeably wider per previous comments, and would help with access to 3rd row as we use two car seats in the 2nd row, but I can understand for those who need to use the outside seats as captain's chairs why the lack of the inside armrests would be annoying
- The folding of the 3rd row seats is improved, making it easier than our current van
- My wife wants a light colored exterior this time and the Taffeta White (which we drove) looked pretty flat
- With the light color, the door rail tracks were very noticeable and unattractive
- The lightning bolt still stuck out for us...just don't like it

Sienna (Limited AWD w/ Premium Pkg, we would add the Convenience Pkg)
- The drive is a huge improvement over the last gen, my wife noticed it immediately
- Not sure if the drive by wire on the Odyssey can be tuned, but the throttle response of the Sienna was much better than in the Odyssey
- The lower fuel efficiency ratings aren't sitting well with my wife, preferring Odyssey's very good MPG numbers
- The front seat cushions are still short - a chronic Toyota trait it seems - my wife is 6' tall and almost all legs and they feel lost on the seat
- The interior is much quieter to our ears, the road noise better suppressed than the Odyssey
- The touch screen functionalities are immediately more intuitive to my wife
- The Smart Key system is a big one for us, I've had it on my last two cars and my wife really likes the feature
- AWD
- Toyota Care Maintenance (which I didn't know about) for 2 years 25,000 miles is a huge plus, including 24 hours road side assistance
- The availability of Toyota Safety Connect (by subscription, free 1st year, again we didn't know about it) is also a big plus, a peace of mind we've been used to with our previous Audi and Mercedes-Benz vehicles, it's the same as Lexus Link
- The exterior design language we found to be more cohesive than the new Odyssey, but admittedly a very personal and subjective opinion

Those I think were the major points for us - the test drive of the Buick Enclave was a disaster, it was disappointingly rough around the edges and outdated, a surprise given its high ratings.

With all said and done, my wife is going to choose the Sienna Limited AWD this time - the combination of pluses outweighed the minuses and when compared to the new Odyssey.

Of course it'll depend if we can get the deal we want on the vehicle but I think with the number of dealers in our area and the competitive space, we will very probably find a satisfying deal and bring one home to our garage.

OK, go ahead and rip the above apart - just be gentle...

 

I completely agree and like the Sienna too. I thought you had a silver Ody now? I guess I must be wrong since you can't go much lighter . Also, have you considered the Quest. After cruising dealer lots for the past few weeks I finally saw one a hour ago and I must say it is in no way any less of a contender than the Ody or Sienna (I was careful how I worded that, and its clear they both have shortcomings). I didn't get to get inside, but it looks like a really nice vehicle when you see it in person. The only concern I have is the seating situation, but I have all three rows up in the Ody most of the time so it really wouldn't matter too much to me. I plan to get in one before too long to do a thorough comparison. And its got the Blind Spot Monitoring, one of the major things docking the Sienna in my book. But then you'd lose laser cruise control.

 

Arkay,
It is nice to read an objective review and good luck working out the final pricing. Hopefully, you and your wife will enjoy the new van.

 

Lots of contention in here. When I originally posted about the CR getting 31 mpg I got replies about how CR reviews aren't any good. They hardly ever get above EPA, so I thought this 31 mpg was significant.

I think the Quest gives up an awful lot in interior space with the seat arrangement, plus the 'floor' is just too high. I also looked at the Ford Flex, but the seat folding left me cold, and driving it felt like it was a huge vehicle, even though I think it isn't any longer than the Honda. I am removing the seats all the time in my 01 Honda, and I am sick of carrying those 65 lb second row seats. I am currently thinking about the Stow & Go, which is not available on the VW Routan. I have 3 large greyhounds who would have trouble with the vehicles that the seats that do not fold into the floor, plus I occasionally carry 4x8s. So many times I have said never again to a Chrysler product, but with the new engine I am considering taking the plunge - a gamble I know. Edmunds got higher slalom speeds with the Chrysler vans than all of the others, by the way.

I hate to see people here attacking each other, much rather express one's opinon and be done with it, respect the opinion of others. This forum is better than most in that regard, but seems to be slipping.

 

I hate to see people here attacking each other, much rather express one's opinon and be done with it, respect the opinion of others. This forum is better than most in that regard, but seems to be slipping.

Its not slipping. Its only when KK starts his rants it all goes down hill. The reason is as much opiniated he is against Hondas, he is unwilling to hear out the other side and that's when issues occur. If KK stops coming, I don't see any other fighting threads. So, we'd be golden if KK behaved or left all to gether. He no longer has an Oddy any way. Every thread KK participates in turns out like this and you can search on his name see for yourself.

There are others who have dumped the Oddy and are on the Sienna and they make their points nicely and rationally for the most part.

 

Went to recent car show and had a good look at both the Sienna and Odyssey... I have to say the 2011 Odyssey looks pretty good inside. The lighting bolt design actually isn't that bad when you see it in person. I just didn't like the front end... looks too much like the Gen 2 Ody- very bla.

The Sienna, ... well that antenna, really a turn off. Like a nice looking girl... then she smiles and her 2 front teeth are missing. Guess it's personal taste. IMO Honda leather and Sienna leather seem similar... kinda a cheap. I like the front end because Toyota basically stole it from Honda (they know a good thing when they see it).

Both are reliable, similar use, etc.. BUT we know the Honda will stop. I never ever think in the back of mind that it won't... If owned a Toyota.... I'd have that little itty bitty doubt in the back of my mind..

 

Both are reliable, similar use, etc.. BUT we know the Honda will stop. I never ever think in the back of mind that it won't... If owned a Toyota.... I'd have that little itty bitty doubt in the back of my mind..

Not this again.

The case has been closed on this issue by NASA and the NHTSA. No fault has been found with Toyota's braking or electronic systems. Not only with the Toyota stop, it will stop sooner.

If this non-issue is an issue for you maybe you should consider another red herring issue of the fact that both Japanese companies come from a country that once bombed Pearl Harbour............:rollingeyes:

 

"If your position is not being respected (I think using the term "accepted" would be more applicable however) did you ever consider that there is a fact based reason for it? "

Nope, the facts you choose to believe aren't set in stone. A true fact is something like gravity. You try to make yourself look smart but... I ain't buying it. You don't seem to own a Odyssey anymore so the only reason I can think of why your still posting here is that your an antagonist.

"Herein lies the root of the lack of acceptance of your position: You are claming Toyota's don't stop. NASA and the NTHSA cleared Toyota."

So, what's your point ? Like I said before, Toyota should provide the source code to a reputable Software Engineering firm and let them check it out. Your not going to convince me otherwise. NASA is not a Software Engineering firm and NTHSA is a joke. I remember checking out vans back in 1999 remember they passed those GM Death vans as safe. After that I lost total respect for that organization. So, NASA and NTHSA mean zippo to me. BTW, you should try using IIHS-HLDI: Crash Testing & Highway Safety once in a while.

"You don't believe their conclusions, but you believe the hype in the media about a few loosly confirmed cases of sudden acceleration (not inability to stop due to driver error because they are to stupid to push the gear lever into neutral.....:rollingeyes."

You know something.... if I were to put you in front of the families that Toyota affected with that issue, I bet you would not be so tart or call them stupid. Why did Toyota not act sooner about such a important issue ? Do you have an answer or will you make an excuse for them ? BTW, do you work for Toyota ?

"Why do you chose to believe media reports (don't tell me they are unbiased) and yet to don't believe NASA and the NTHSA (but I'm sure you believe the 2 star crash rating given the Toyota by the NTHSA right??)."

Stopping and Crash tests are 2 different things last time I checked. No I don't believe NTHSA :rollingeyes. Toyota and most minivan makers strive for crash safety - it;s a key selling point. When I bought my 2000 Windstar it was because it got good crash results. There was no Honda inventory and the Sienna was too small for my needs (but very safe as it is today). So, I'm not taking your bait on this. I sure don't want the ROLLING EYES or being called Stupid by any means.

"You are obviously picking only certain "facts" to support your position."

You are obviously picking only certain "facts" to support your position. ROLLING EYES

"BTW, the same government that supports/funds these 2 organizations who cleared Toyota is also a competitor of Toyota. Hows that for a conspiracy......."

Wake up, we live in a global economy now. No government wants to see jobs lost, Both Odysseys and Siennas are made in North America as well as domestic makers (if you can call them that now). I'm sure there some Toyota lobbyists in the mix.

The underlying issue is that Toyota knew and took no actions that could of saved more lives.... So to finish, this thread is about minivan comparisons... Hondas will stop... Toyotas... well they should... maybe..

You have good day !

 

Nope, the facts you choose to believe aren't set in stone. A true fact is something like gravity. You try to make yourself look smart but... I ain't buying it. You don't seem to own a Odyssey anymore so the only reason I can think of why your still posting here is that your an antagonist.

I'm debating a claim you made, not a claim I made. Of course your quoted at the end of this is that Honda's stop and Toyota's might. Care to present some facts aside from gravity that support this opinion?

So, what's your point ? Like I said before, Toyota should provide the source code to a reputable Software Engineering firm and let them check it out. Your not going to convince me otherwise. NASA is not a Software Engineering firm and NTHSA is a joke.

So NASA can't write software? You can't be serious.....

The point is that you are the one making a conclusion and and not providing sources and ingnoring other sources because you clearly have a bias against said sources (NASA and NHTSA)

You know something.... if I were to put you in front of the families that Toyota affected with that issue, I bet you would not be so tart or call them stupid. Why did Toyota not act sooner about such a important issue ? Do you have an answer or will you make an excuse for them ? BTW, do you work for Toyota ?

Do you even know anybody who experienced this issue? I also don't believe that anybody was killed due to this contrived media hype issue was there?

I don't work for toyota and never had one until this one. I've had several Hondas and I know that just like Toyota, Honda isn't perfect.

Doing the cry me a river/sympathy card does nothing. People die every day in all kinds of tragedies which is tragic. But to make a blanket statement about an entire car company based on a few uncomfirmed problems is ludicrous.

Stopping and Crash tests are 2 different things last time I checked.

Yep, now prove to me that the Toyota's actually weren't stopping and that even if there were toyota's that didn't stop that it was anything other than human error.

No I don't believe NTHSA :rollingeyes.

Phew. That means you will never post that Honda's have a better crash rating than Toyota.....

So, I'm not taking your bait on this. I sure don't want the ROLLING EYES or being called Stupid by any means.

You should re-read my post. The rolling eyes was for incompetent drivers who claimed to have speeding toyota's but somehow couldn't put the vehicle in neutral........

The underlying issue is that Toyota knew and took no actions that could of saved more lives.... So to finish, this thread is about minivan comparisons... Hondas will stop... Toyotas... well they should... maybe..

Knew of what issue? You won't agree that NASA/NHTSA have proven that there wasn't an issue but what facts can you provide that there even was an issue?

You have good day !

I always do! :coolio:

 

We've been shopping the Sienna and Odyssey and spent more time in them yesterday. We were pretty much settled on the Sienna but I hit a few snags yesterday mainly with seat comfort. Major sticking points at this time:

Sienna Ltd AWD Premium (NAV/DVD)

Pros:

-AWD
-2nd row loungers/slider
-3rd row folds easier
-Dual moonroofs
-Exterior style
-Front cupholdes much nicer
-Center console slides to 2nd row


Cons:
-Drivers seat comfort
-Interior plastics
-Motor less smooth when accelerating
-Drivers seat comfort
-Armrest doesn't adjust
-Quite a bit more expensive than Touring.


Now the kicker...my wife hands down likes/wants the Sienna. Her con list is basically non-existent. I have a serious problem from the comfort side because I'm the one driving on long trips. Well that's where we are at this time....the Acadia/Enclave may be back on the list for longer test drives.

 

I apologize if I've asked you this already, but have you considered the Quest? I have another thread discussing the pros and cons of that. In the thread I say its not going to be for everyone, but at the same time, it doesn't seem to have any greater drawbacks then the Ody or Sienna. For my purposes, I don't think it would suffice, but its a very lifestyle specific decison. In the second set of photos in the thread I also commented on the comfortable seats And the interior is WAY ahead of the Ody and Sienna.
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/12-minivan-comparisons/148076-2006-odyssey-vs-2011-quest-photos.html

 

I live in a major metro area and I see WAY more Odys than Siennas on the road. I like the look for the 2011 Odyssey and for the FIRST time, find the new styling of the Sienna pretty nice too.

ALL the discussions about AWD and the like, I guess I don't see the big deal about it unless you live up in a mountain pass or in International Falls or somewhere. I use good snow tires on my Ody and I have NEVER gotten stuck. Stuff like adaptive cruise, and two moonroofs Smart Keys, etc, just gadgets IMO.......????

 

Funny you should mention the popularity...one of the reasons my wife wants the Sienna is because the Ody is so popular around here. There are four identical silver ones at the school...to the point the kids are getting in the wrong van. Mine is the only one with painted mud guards..otherwise you can't tell the difference. It's kind of a joke how many we see. There are almost no Siennas around although I have argued that there weren't any Odys back in 2005....so who knows how many there will be in a couple years. Of course most folks around here drive full-size SUV's anyway.

We live about 10 miles from town in a rural area and have a couple very steep hills to climb. The Ody is by-far the worst FWD we've owned even with snow tires. It gets along ok with Blizzaks though so I don't feel AWD is required (plus we have other 4x4's to drive) but it would be nice. Plus the AWD Ltd Sienna doesn't have the power third row which we both dislike.

 

Quest seats fold flat but not into the floor. Wouldn't work for me.....

 

108 cu. ft. vs 148 cu. ft. approx.

 

Snobike Mike, you are definitely an antagonist and a childish one at that. Out of respect for this board and the current Honda Odyssey owners, I'm not going to bother responding on your rebuttal. We could go on and on all day long, your not going to change my view nor will I change yours and I can accept that... can you ?

 

Uh oh....

Just two U.S. models among Consumer Reports' Top Picks - Drive On: A conversation about the cars and trucks we drive - USATODAY.com

 

Is that the same Consumer Reports that issued this?

It's generally accepted that every new iteration of any vehicle is somehow better than its predecessor. And that's true of the 2011 Toyota Sienna minivan, which is festooned with more goodies (like a 16.4-inch widescreen monitor for rear-seat passengers) and a sportier flair (complete with a sporty SE trim) than the previous generation Sienna. The only question that remains, then, is this: Do those improvements automatically equal a better vehicle?

According to Consumer Reports, the answer is no. And surprisingly, it's not even close, with the new Sienna's overall test score of 80 paling in comparison to the 2010's overall score of 94. The main culprits cited by CR for the plummeting score are poor fit and finish and excessive interior noise – bad enough that CR claims it's not possible to have a proper conversation between front and rear passengers.

Autoblog

Or this?

Honda, including its Acura luxury division, received the best overall score, 74, and also logged the highest reliability rating of the 13 manufacturers. The magazine’s editors, however, qualified that some newer Hondas have been unimpressive. These included two hybrids, the CR-Z and Insight. While the road-test score for the redesigned Honda Odyssey dropped a few points over the previous generation, it was still acknowledged as the magazine’s top-rated minivan.

Honda Repeats on 2011 Consumer Reports Study

These guys, what gives

 

Mazda 5 mini minivan is it a real minivan or not ?

Anyone know if Mazda 5 is considered a "real" minivan ?

No reports on issues with stopping when it's suppose to either !

 

Anyone know if Mazda 5 is considered a "real" minivan ?

Yes it is if you compare it with the Hpnda Odyssey and the Dodge Caravan... the 1st generations of each that is (1995 and 1984 respectively)

 

Forgot how much I despise Toyota dealers. The nearest is also a Honda shop...and they suck on both sides of the lot and I don't deal with them. I've called two other Toyota dealers now with inventory that we want and neither have returned my calls. One I left my name with reception because after holding for ten minutes nobody would pickup the call. That was Monday. Called back Tuesday and asked for a salesman and was on hold five minutes and I hung up. The other I spoke with what I thought was a salesman and after verifying they had the unit with the features I wanted, he said he would have a salesman call me back. I said "who are you?" and he said he routes calls to the appropriate salesman but none were available. Un-f'in-believable. I left my number at 5:30 tonight and no call (they're open until 8pm) I've bought a half-dozen Toyotas over the years...and it's always a PITA. I don't know why I even consider them because the service is even worse. Luckily I've never needed much repair work from them or I'd want to cut my throat. If my wife wasn't so adamant about the Sienna I wouldn't be having this conversation. Bought my Ody over the phone in a matter of minutes. Now if someone would just answer the phone.....

 

They all suck. Our local Honda dealer wouldn't even value my trade on the Ody even after I drove it in to the dealer (which they asked me to do) and the used car guy was sitting in his office. Unless I wrote a deal gave a deposit they weren't going to "put people to work". And that's not the worst of it.