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Removing the second row seats

41K views 64 replies 15 participants last post by  DerbyDad03  
#1 ·
#3 · (Edited)
Very clever! I have three of the pulley lift systems hanging from the garage ceiling--they are bike storage devices--since we no longer have 3 bikes so I may repurpose one and make one of these systems. Looks like the sliding track and wheels are from a barn door system.

I wonder why the 2019 (and probably the 2018 and above) middle seats do not fold flat? What a pain! The center seats of our '99, '06, and our '15 do fold flat which allows them to be stored upright or with the front down on the ground or up in the air. Looks like the newer seats can only be stored upright (and slightly folded) thus taking up more room in the garage.

Did not realize these things are that heavy--no wonder it takes so much effort to remove them. The seats are also bulky and the cabin is cramped so it is difficult if not impossible to remove them in an ergonomically correct fashion.

Strangely enough I find the seats much easier to put back into the van than removing them--probably due to the fact that I am able to use my leg strength to lift them off the garage floor and set them down in the van without as much back effort.
 
#5 ·
I wonder why the 2019 (and probably the 2018 and above) middle seats do not fold flat? What a pain!
The new "magic" seats magically got much heavier! They have to house the shoulder belt mechanism and all that entails. Likely, they had to also strengthen the frames due to the belts, which required some design compromises. Or Honda didn't realize how much people like the ability to fold the seats flat (helpful for cargo room if you haven't taken out the seats in some situations, and helpful for storage, as we all know).

Then take a look at the bracket left on the floor that allows the L-R sliding to happen... That doesn't come out of the van. The floor wasn't anywhere closet to flat on the 3rd and 4th gen vans - and now it is even worse.

-Charlie
 
#4 ·
Nice engineering.

I have a Gen 3 and a Gen 4 Odyssey. I didn't realize that the Gen 5 seats don't fold flat. How inconvenient and cumbersome. Way to go Honda! I wonder what prevents them from folding flat like in previous generations. How much extra work would it have been for Honda to build them "right"?

I R&R my 2nd row seats very often and so far I've been able to do so without injury. 🙏 I have a couple of moving dollies like you use so there is not a lot of carrying. All of the up and down work is done right at the van and that extra few inches off of the floor make a huge difference.

God willing, I'll be able to continue to manhandle the seats like I do now until I no longer have a need for an Ody, but I'm going to bookmark your video just in case.

Thanks for sharing!
 
#8 · (Edited)
gobluetwo,
Yes, a more involved process than I would like. But at my age and having pulled my back several times in the past, I'm determined not to pull my back removing those 70 lb seats from our Ody. Thanks.
........................................

vango5,
Thanks for your kind comment. If you do build a seat removal jig, maybe consider using 1x4's for the legs and just add a short piece to double the thickness for the sawhorse brackets. I'm wondering if I shouldn't have experimented with using 1x4 legs to make them a lot lighter. Do let us know if you try that.
........................................

DerbyDad03,
Thanks for your kind comment. Yes, it's mind boggling that the Honda engineers didn't design the 2nd row seat backs to fold flat and equally mind boggling that the seat backs won't lock in the forward tilt position. Congrats on being a young stud with a strong back (for now ;) ).
..........................................

phattyduck,
Yes, "magic seats" are good words for how they magically got to be 70 lbs each. The non flat floors are "bummers".
...........................................

caleb.cissna,
Didn't know that the 2nd row seats in the 2021 Odys can fold flat. Maybe they fired the old engineers and hired better ones.
............................................

DerbyDad03,
Yep, the non flat floor in the 2018+ Odys is a royal pain. I built a false floor that goes behind the 2nd row seats. It can be seen in my youtube video about removing the second row seats. The false floor is covered with a gray carpet. I also built a second false floor for when the 2nd row seats are removed and it's also covered with a gray carpet. Having a completely flat floor with the 2nd row seats removed allows putting a 3" thick tri-fold mattress in the back and it's a joy to lie in the back with pillows when we go to the beach. I'll be making a youtube video on my build later. Meanwhile, here's a couple of pics of my setup:

Crazy bumpy 2019 Ody floor:
157648


Flat cargo area:
157649


Thanks all,
Raptor88
 
#10 ·
DerbyDad03,
Thanks for your kind comment. Yes, it's mind boggling that the Honda engineers didn't design the 2nd row seat backs to fold flat and equally mind boggling that the seat backs won't lock in the forward tilt position. Congrats on being a young stud with a strong back (for now ;) ).
Young stud? Not even close! If I wasn't still gainfully employed, I could be cashing a monthly Social Security check. :)

Strong back? Strong enough, I guess. I do try to stay active and that includes not shying away from hard work for as long as I am able. 25+ years of helping kids build and race Soap Box Derby cars means a lot of heavy lifting.

Yep, the non flat floor in the 2018+ Odys is a royal pain. I built a false floor that goes behind the 2nd row seats.
Great job! I hope mine comes out as nice as yours.
 
#9 ·
Raptor88--

I am totally envious of the flat cargo area that you have created--makes your Odyssey look like an awesomely (sp?) appointed cargo van! Is the carpeted part nearest the tailgate one piece? How large is it? Where do you store it?

As far as the 1x4s for the legs, I would be concerned about having too much flex since the outside legs are pretty long. It looks like you used douglas fir 2x4s, so as they dry out with age they should get lighter.

By chance were you an engineer in a previous life?
 
#11 ·
Raptor88--

I am totally envious of the flat cargo area that you have created--makes your Odyssey look like an awesomely (sp?) appointed cargo van! Is the carpeted part nearest the tailgate one piece? How large is it? Where do you store it?

As far as the 1x4s for the legs, I would be concerned about having too much flex since the outside legs are pretty long. It looks like you used douglas fir 2x4s, so as they dry out with age they should get lighter.

By chance were you an engineer in a previous life?
The plywood is one 4' wide piece and it goes from the tailgate to the 2nd row seats when they are in the full back position. With the 2nd row seats removed, there is an extension plywood that is 4' wide and it goes up to the front seat center console.

See the blue tape going across? That is actually beyond where the back false floor plywood ends. The carpet is longer so that it can fold down and under the back false floor. When I remove the 2nd row seats, I pull that part of the carpet out and fold it back on top. Then I install the front false floor and lay the folded carpet on the front floor. That's why the carpet extends further. Cut another piece of carpet for the balance. I first used blue painters tape but I don't put the blue painter's tape on top anymore. I use a wide piece of Duct tape underneath to hold the two pieces of carpet together. Can hardly see the seam.

For the legs I used 2x4s but they were pretty heavy so I trimmed them down as shown in the youtube video to try to make them lighter. If I were to do it again, I would try using 1x4s and if they flexed for the long legs (probably not), I would add a 3/4" x 3/4" (or 3/4" x 1") strip down the center. That should be able to support a 70 lb seat fine and be much lighter than my 2x4s.

Was not an engineer but computer tech support and then a manager.

Keep it warm,
Raptor88
 
#16 ·
Yeah, sewing machine would have to be a very heavy duty model... I was thinking some sort of adhesive or staples, or both. Also, you likely wouldn't need a full-width setup, just a few strips 90* to the seam spaced out.

-Charlie
 
#19 ·
Yeah, sewing machine would have to be a very heavy duty model... I was thinking some sort of adhesive or staples, or both. Also, you likely wouldn't need a full-width setup, just a few strips 90* to the seam spaced out.

-Charlie
I'll keep your suggestions in mind and continue to try to figure out an easy way to use velcro.
Thanks,
Raptor88
 
#20 ·
Slightly off topic... but I wanted to point out --- at least the Odyssey's seats CAN be removed. Starting in 2021, the Sienna's second row seats cannot even be taken out of the car at all!
 
#34 ·
DerbyDad03,
Yep, the non flat floor in the 2018+ Odys is a royal pain. I built a false floor that goes behind the 2nd row seats. It can be seen in my youtube video about removing the second row seats. The false floor is covered with a gray carpet. I also built a second false floor for when the 2nd row seats are removed and it's also covered with a gray carpet. Having a completely flat floor with the 2nd row seats removed allows putting a 3" thick tri-fold mattress in the back and it's a joy to lie in the back with pillows when we go to the beach. I'll be making a youtube video on my build later. Meanwhile, here's a couple of pics of my setup:

Crazy bumpy 2019 Ody floor:
View attachment 157648

Flat cargo area:
View attachment 157649

Thanks all,
Raptor88
[/QUOTE]


Please update us and post that video or some photo details on how you built the flat flooring. I have an air mattress in my van but I am using these thick foam "yoga" mats to cover the second row seat mounts so that it doesn't puncture my air bed. Lol. Would love to do mine a lot cleaner and LEVELED. the pillow side of the bed sinks cuz the floor isn't completely level to the rear of the van. This is the "love making" or drive-in theater set up. 😅

157952
 
#35 · (Edited)
Please update us and post that video or some photo details on how you built the flat flooring. I have an air mattress in my van but I am using these thick foam "yoga" mats to cover the second row seat mounts so that it doesn't puncture my air bed. Lol. Would love to do mine a lot cleaner and LEVELED. the pillow side of the bed sinks cuz the floor isn't completely level to the rear of the van. This is the "love making" or drive-in theater set up. 😅
Plan to make a youtube video about how the false floor in our 2019 Ody is made.

But for now, my floor is made out of 3/8 plywood with sufficient supports below for that thickness plywood. The design consideration was that thick plywood is heavy while supports for 3/8" plywood are light. Also that the less weight the better for gas mileage.

The floor behind the 2nd row seats always stay in the van (unless for a very rare occasion if we need the 3rd row seats, which hasn't happened since I built the false floor).

Being 3/8" plywood, the forward section of plywood is very light and easy to install and remove when the 2nd row seats are out of the van. Also for storage, that 3/8" plywood takes up minimal space when not being used. I just slip it between a shelf assembly and a large grill in our carport. Just needs 1" of space to slip it between those items.

Raptor88
 
#36 ·
I made a comment on the youtube movie on how to easily remove the second seat removal.
The poster asked me to explain how to do it with a simple "cherry picker" and where to store it.

I am on the road for a couple of months so can not fully document on how to do it, but I can post this picture.
In essence in the lift position, place the bottom legs of the cherry picker underneath the car, so that he lift arm is above the seat. Strap the seat to the lift arm and slightly lift the seat up. Pull back on the cherry picker and move to where ever. Then lower the seat to the ground.

The original poster also wondered where to store this thing, and I wondered why he should not be able to find a storage place when the cherry picker has such a small footprint in the folded-up configuration...
Image
 
#37 ·
I made a comment on the youtube movie on how to easily remove the second seat removal.
The poster asked me to explain how to do it with a simple "cherry picker" and where to store it.

I am on the road for a couple of months so can not fully document on how to do it, but I can post this picture.
In essence in the lift position, place the bottom legs of the cherry picker underneath the car, so that he lift arm is above the seat. Strap the seat to the lift arm and slightly lift the seat up. Pull back on the cherry picker and move to where ever. Then lower the seat to the ground.

The original poster also wondered where to store this thing, and I wondered why he should not be able to find a storage place when the cherry picker has such a small footprint in the folded-up configuration...
another good option, for those not as handy with woodworking.
assume its significantly more money than the wood option, and the OP's method is clever, assume he's retired and enjoys tinkering.
 
#41 ·
Like he said, you are making the "easy" hard. 😁

1) how you will convert the "cherry picker's" published lifting height range of 69-5/8" to 82" to less than 61" since the bottom of the van's roof is 61" above the ground and you need to lower the crane lower than that to connect to the chair before lifting.
Address the issue of the van being too low instead of the hoist being too high. Some options.

Image
Image
Image


2) how you will roll the "cherry picker's" heavy frame out while simultaneously holding and guiding the chair out of the doorway
One hand on the seat and one hand on this, rigged with a pully system between the carport and the lift used to solve problem number 1. As you tighten the come-along, the hoist moves away from the van.

Image


3) how the "cherry picker" can roll in/out when the carport's floor is higher than the sidewalk like in my case (as shown in my youtube video),
Some pre-work may be required:

Image




4) how you will lower the 70 lb chair all the way down to the dolly without a rope and pulley assembly,

See the solution to number 5


5) how you will position the dolly under the chair since the cherry picker's bottom frame is in the way.
Actually, this one might really work:

Image



QED 😁
 
#46 ·
Ingenious, clever. I’ve been reading these posts the last few years hoping to make up my mind about updating our 2010 Ody to a new one with all the new safety features. This video has probably made up my mind to buy a Chrysler Pacifica that has a much better second row seat design thus providing less of a chance to relearn all the words to the song “Oh, My Aching Back.”
 
#48 · (Edited)
The features that the Chrysler has makes them attractive. I would be concerned about long term reliability. There are tons of 2nd Generation Odysseys on the road (even a few 1st gen) in great physical and mechanical condition. The Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth minivans (and these are the pioneers in the minivan class of vehicles) of similar vintage have been long retired and few come close to making it over 150,000 or so miles on the odometer. The ones that I see on the road in the same vintage look and sound sad. I don't think these vehicles have the same quality as the Hondas do.

We tend to keep our vehicles long term--first two Odysseys ('99 and '06) made it to 230,000+ miles, the second one would have made it much higher but it was totalled. Am pretty confident that our '15 with 72,000 miles has a lot of life left in it. I am very pleased with the long term ownership value of the vehicles that Honda makes (also had Accords with over 200K). Am not so sure if we would have the same experience if we had purchased a Chrysler product.

Would be nice if Honda could innovate the seat stuff like Chrysler has. I have rented Chrysler minivans in the past and was impressed with the seat stowage technology as well as hidden storage that they had. The long term reliability kept me from considering the Chrysler when we bought our 2 year old 2015 odyssey.
 
#53 ·
Terrific video - a precise standard operating procedure (SOP) - love it! Thank you, Raptor88.
BTW, I noticed you have built a carpeted platform to level the cargo area (what were those engineers thinking?) Do you have drawings you can share?
Hi gebinns,
Thank your for your kind comments. I plan to post a youtube video on how my false floor is constructed. I don't see post numbers to reference a previous post I made in this thread so here's a copy of it:

"But for now, my floor is made out of 3/8 plywood with sufficient supports below for that thickness plywood. The design consideration was that thick plywood is heavy while supports for 3/8" plywood are light. Also that the less weight the better for gas mileage.

The floor behind the 2nd row seats always stay in the van (unless for a very rare occasion if we need the 3rd row seats, which hasn't happened since I built the false floor).

Being 3/8" plywood, the forward section of plywood is very light and easy to install and remove when the 2nd row seats are out of the van. Also for storage, that 3/8" plywood takes up minimal space when not being used. I just slip it between a shelf assembly and a large grill in our carport. Just needs 1" of space to slip it between those items."


Raptor88