[1001Jim]

Being totally new to this drain and fill business, I thank CNN for his very informative posts and how to`s to get the job done. After
reading many posts about the different ATF fluids of choice I decided to go with Amsoil "Fuel Efficient" ATF and did 2 drain and fills
before taking a 2 week vacation to Colorado and driving around 2500 miles. Best mileage came on the trip home with 31 mpg on
the trip from Laramie,WY down to Scottsbluff,NE. 2 trips over the top of Rocky Mountain National park on trail Ridge road gave us
27 mpg. My overall average since the trip started was 25mpg and this was with a fully loaded 06 EX-L with the AC running the trip.
Will be doing a another drain and fill when I get time from catching up at work. Could be a few more days.

 

[0dyfamily]

Jim, Odysseys have a history of accelerated transmission case wear and ATF not doing what it's supposed to with the valving that controls torque converter clutch (TCC) operation. Thin ATF's will make for a bad situation on hot days with the engine at idle (like the "stop" part of stop-and-go traffic) . Under those conditions low-viscosity ATF can contribute to a fluid balance situation with the TCC control valve that allows the TC clutch to drag and overheat and ruin the TC. In general, most people don't notice TCC clutch drag until the A/T quits working.

I'm an AmSOil user, but I do not use their "Fuel Efficient" ATF in either my 2002 or 2003. Your 2006 has essentially the same A/T with some minor differences (plus major changes in 3rd clutch lubrication flow path that were incorporated in 2004). My Odysseys and your Odyssey were originally spec'd for the more viscous ATF-Z1, and the AmSOil Sig Series Fuel Efficient ATF only supports vehicles originally spec'd for ATF DW-1.

funtown89 is one of our resident transmission experts...he not only rebuilds them, he actually performs TCC control valve and strainer fixes to make sure a Honda tranny doesn't come back for another repair. Somewhere in the forum he recommended, if I remember correctly in my old age, to use something with moderately more viscosity than ATF-Z1. davedrievesody's chart on the previous page sorts the data on the 100-deg C viscosity column, which is appropriate. Take a look at that. scottn3 has seen a number of satisfied people using Redline D4 in the long term, and it just might be Redline hit on a good set of viscosity numbers and antiwear additives to make it a great ATF and keep a 2002-2006 Honda Ody tranny & TCC alive for far longer than Honda ATF-Z1 could.

On a surprising note, Valvoline MaxLife is thinner at 40-deg C and 100-deg C than ATF-Z1, but has many, many, many happy, long-term users (included myself, before availability in my 2x2 town became a problem). Go figure!

OF

 

[nocode]

Also, Lugegard Red at a dose of 1oz per quart ATF capacity.

Odyfamily - is that 1oz of Lubegard per qt of refill (i.e., +/-3.5qts) or of TOTAL atf capacity (8.5qts or whatever it may be)?

Never used Lubegard before and want to make sure I use the right amount. Thanks.

 

[Hogan773]

I assume that since I am under warranty on my 2010, (and maybe for other reasons) I should stick to DW1

 

[0dyfamily]

nocode, it is 1oz. of Lubegard per qt. of total ATF capacity. Do this after your last drain/refill. That's what I did. Then, with every subsequent periodic single drain/refill (I do one every 10,000-to-12,000 miles, so it works out to about once per year), I add 3-to-4 ounces of LG with the refill to make up for the LG that was mixed into the ATF I just drained out of the A/T

Hogan, our own 02Ody02 diplomatically persuaded me to check and see is ATF DW-1 has any hits on the web. There are a lot of people successfully using it across the Honda and Acura line. Even some people using it in vehicles that are not Hondas. And over the last 3 years, no disintegrating A/T's. I have to change my stance on it, though I will say I was initially incredibly biased against it due to Honda's Gen 2 tranny-3rd clutch-ATF-Z1 disaster over the last several years.

It appears ATF DW-1 is yet another good choice available to us Ody owners.

Like I said before, if you buy a compatible quality ATF, it works, Odyssey lasts long time, and you feel you got a fair deal...that's all that matters in the end.

OF

 

[1001Jim]

Thank you for your wealth of info regarding Amsoil Fuel efficient ATF. Will switch to their regular ATF on my next session of drain and fills. As for the transmission
operating. Never smoother then with Amsoil. Had the dreaded tranny judder before switching and on the first drain and fill it went away. Something is working.

 

[Family.Hauler]

I have an 07' Odyssey I purchased new with 96K and use Amsoil. It is easy to change if you are a "do it yourself" person. I have had great service using this and saved my self money doing the drain and fills my self. Good luck. William & Mary Ann Sloane - Independent AMSOIL Dealer - Gilbert, Arizona AMSOIL Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid

 

[mrstop]

I am getting ready to do my next transmission fluid change and want to change over to the Valvoline Maxlife or Import ATF. I have been running the Castrol Import ATF for a long time (with frequent changes). Because the Valvoline is synthetic, is there any problems mixing with the Dino base Castrol? Should I do the 3x change or gradually introduce the Valvoline?

Background on my transmission:
Thanks to tips from the board, my van has 170K on the original transmission and it is still running strong (knock on wood). I installed a trans cooler early in the vans life. Also, I have been changing the tranny fluid regularly for the last 100K. I even preemptively cleaned the screens about 10K miles ago and there was little to no gunk to clean. A Magnefine filter was installed about 10K miles ago for further insurance.

 

[Hogan773]

nocode, it is 1oz. of Lubegard per qt. of total ATF capacity. Do this after your last drain/refill. That's what I did. Then, with every subsequent periodic single drain/refill (I do one every 10,000-to-12,000 miles, so it works out to about once per year), I add 3-to-4 ounces of LG with the refill to make up for the LG that was mixed into the ATF I just drained out of the A/T

Hogan, our own 02Ody02 diplomatically persuaded me to check and see is ATF DW-1 has any hits on the web. There are a lot of people successfully using it across the Honda and Acura line. Even some people using it in vehicles that are not Hondas. And over the last 3 years, no disintegrating A/T's. I have to change my stance on it, though I will say I was initially incredibly biased against it due to Honda's Gen 2 tranny-3rd clutch-ATF-Z1 disaster over the last several years.

It appears ATF DW-1 is yet another good choice available to us Ody owners.

Like I said before, if you buy a compatible quality ATF, it works, Odyssey lasts long time, and you feel you got a fair deal...that's all that matters in the end.

OF

Yeah, I think I'll just stick to the DW-1 for now. Sounds like it is an improvement to the Z1 that is in my tank now from the factory, and beyond the fact that it is a couple bucks more and I need to get it at my dealer and not WalMart like the Valvoline MaxLife (and my DNA always has me feeling like I've automatically been "scammed" as soon as I walk into the dealer), I'm not convinced that MaxLife is BETTER. Plus since my car is under warranty, I'm not gonna go down the road of saving a couple bucks now and then trying to convince Honda 3 years from now that they shouldn't deny my warranty claim because some posters on OdyClub forums were touting MaxLife as an acceptable alternative. Since there are a bunch of positive "this new DW-1 seems to improve my shifting" posts across the internet and not many (or any) "this Dw-1 killed my trans", I assume it's ok. All I've really seen are the "this stuff seems so thin, I am guessing that maybe it is trading smooth shifting today for increased wear and reduced protection over time" speculation, but at this point I think it can only be speculation since nobody on these boards probably knows the exact chemical composition vs MaxLife and we haven't had enough time pass, with scientific tests, to prove anything.

On a side note, I think it is so fascinating that there is a whole forum very active (Bob the Oil Guy) with people endlessly talking about oil, and whether it makes sense to save $1.29 going with this oil filter vs that oil filter, etc. I've been reading and reading and am guilty of spending so much time thinking about it too. It just hit me this morning as such a weird thing. Perhaps it is because this is our hobby so we like to geek out on all the techno stuff and trying to get the "best" and the "best value". Perhaps it is because we inherently suspect that most oils are generally the same or very similar and there is a healthy dose of marketing fluff, and we'd like to figure out what is fluff and what isn't so we don't overpay for useless features. The thing I find very funny is that all this analysis is really going into saving a few dollars. We do the same thing for milk. It kills me to pay $2.49 a gallon if I know that a store a mile away has it for $1.99 a gallon, but then the family will waste 10 bucks on chips and junk that we didn't need anyway and somehow that doesn't kill me as much.

Self-reflection period over....thanks for listening. Maybe it strikes a chord with someone.

Have a good weekend

 

[blackSOHC]

The thing I find very funny is that all this analysis is really going into saving a few dollars. We do the same thing for milk. It kills me to pay $2.49 a gallon if I know that a store a mile away has it for $1.99 a gallon, but then the family will waste 10 bucks on chips and junk that we didn't need anyway and somehow that doesn't kill me as much.

LOL...well said, and so true!

 

[0dyfamily]

Not really....you missed the point. A lot of us Gen 2 owners made a switch in ATF because many of us distrust the Honda product given all the 5-speed A/T's that crumped with a load of ATF-Z1 in their sumps. Same for a wide spectrum of Acura 3.2 TL owners with the near-identical 5-speed A/T and a host of problems such as uncommanded downshifting from 5th to a lower gear like 2nd gear, at freeway speed. All on ATF-Z1. You'll note we have a lot of AmSOil users...it's somewhat costlier than Honda ATF DW-1. We-re using it in both Odys because of its superb record, plus Lubegard red, the only additive I know of that is endorsed by an OEM. The Honda DW-1 may be acceptable, but we-re trying to make ours last a long time, so I'm paying the price for extraordinary synthetic ATF plus the cash outlay for the couple quarts of Lubegard in my garage's oil cabinet. Same for the people who are using other quality synthetic fluids, some with the added price of using Lubegard. ATF DW-1 may prove to be better than my skeptical mind thinks, but I'll wait and see...just my personal choice.

blackSOHC, you have a 2006, a year known for TCC problems. Some 2005-2006 owners have successfully switched to non-Honda synthetic ATF's to get rid of TC shuddering that even a newly installed TC and fresh ATF DW-1 couldn't cure. One of my friends whom I regularly visit in OK is dealing with Honda right now regarding this in his blue 2006 EX. His 5-speed's TCC has been problematic since day 1. We'll see where this goes. He may become a new Redline D4, Mobil 1, MaxLife or AmSOil convert if Honda can't fix this.

And the never-ending saga of Honda Odyssey A/T problems goes on and on.

Thank you for your wealth of info regarding Amsoil Fuel efficient ATF. Will switch to their regular ATF on my next session of drain and fills. As for the transmission
operating. Never smoother then with Amsoil. Had the dreaded tranny judder before switching and on the first drain and fill it went away. Something is working.

Jim, I may have spoken too soon. The ATF DW-1 specification is the only one that Honda supports now. Ergo, the AmSOil Fuel Efficient ATF would receive the full warranty backing of that company, if I read their webpage correctly. I guess that AmSOil Fuel Efficient ATF may be yet another good choice for or Odys.

OF

 

[mrstop]

Is there any issue mixing the synthetic Valvoline Maxlife with the petro based Castrol Multi Import?

I am getting ready to do my next transmission fluid change and want to change over to the Valvoline Maxlife or Import ATF. I have been running the Castrol Import ATF for a long time (with frequent changes). Because the Valvoline is synthetic, is there any problems mixing with the Dino base Castrol? Should I do the 3x change or gradually introduce the Valvoline?

Background on my transmission:
Thanks to tips from the board, my van has 170K on the original transmission and it is still running strong (knock on wood). I installed a trans cooler early in the vans life. Also, I have been changing the tranny fluid regularly for the last 100K. I even preemptively cleaned the screens about 10K miles ago and there was little to no gunk to clean. A Magnefine filter was installed about 10K miles ago for further insurance.

 

[0dyfamily]

Is there any issue mixing the synthetic Valvoline Maxlife with the petro based Castrol Multi Import?

No issues. I mixed Valvoline MaxLife with ATF-Z1 years ago with no issues. I can't recall if I did a single drain-refill or 3x or 4x.

I wish I still had my 2001. Neighbor's bro'-in-law purchased it from me. He has since passed on, but I think he easily passed through 180,000 miles. Yeah, you've done all you can to prolong the life of that Honda 4-speed V-6 tranny. If it ever quits, it won't be because of any lack of effort on your part.

You know what? If you've easily gone through 170,000 on the original tranny, why change? Sounds like the Castrol is working just ducky for you. If the Valvoline product comes in at a similar price, well, then that's good, too.

OF

 

[Hogan773]

Not really....you missed the point. A lot of us Gen 2 owners made a switch in ATF because many of us distrust the Honda product given all the 5-speed A/T's that crumped with a load of ATF-Z1 in their sumps. Same for a wide spectrum of Acura 3.2 TL owners with the near-identical 5-speed A/T and a host of problems such as uncommanded downshifting from 5th to a lower gear like 2nd gear, at freeway speed. All on ATF-Z1. You'll note we have a lot of AmSOil users...it's somewhat costlier than Honda ATF DW-1. We-re using it in both Odys because of its superb record, plus Lubegard red, the only additive I know of that is endorsed by an OEM. The Honda DW-1 may be acceptable, but we-re trying to make ours last a long time, so I'm paying the price for extraordinary synthetic ATF plus the cash outlay for the couple quarts of Lubegard in my garage's oil cabinet. Same for the people who are using other quality synthetic fluids, some with the added price of using Lubegard. ATF DW-1 may prove to be better than my skeptical mind thinks, but I'll wait and see...just my personal choice.

blackSOHC, you have a 2006, a year known for TCC problems. Some 2005-2006 owners have successfully switched to non-Honda synthetic ATF's to get rid of TC shuddering that even a newly installed TC and fresh ATF DW-1 couldn't cure. One of my friends whom I regularly visit in OK is dealing with Honda right now regarding this in his blue 2006 EX. His 5-speed's TCC has been problematic since day 1. We'll see where this goes. He may become a new Redline D4, Mobil 1, MaxLife or AmSOil convert if Honda can't fix this.

I hear you. I'm still under warranty (7 yrs with 4 left) so I'm gonna do DW-1 and not monkey around with it for now. I'll hope that DW-1 is much better than Z1. But in any case the last thing I want to do is give Honda the gun and the bullet to shoot my warranty coverage if there is ever a problem.

 

[0dyfamily]

hogan, by all accounts, it seems like DW-1 is measuring up. Man, that is wise action to not give Honda an inch when it comes to holding them to a warranty. Using an OEM ATF with a warranty still in force is a wise idea.

I'm of the opinion that anything is better than Z1 for "big" Honda products. Even though it is thinner than ATF-Z1, I'm convinced that they had to improve the anti-wear additives and FM package in the new DW-1.

It does amaze me that we are around 180,000 miles on our Accord, and it has seen nothing but ATF-Z1. Then again, it's old, light in weight, and only a 4-cylinder. No much stress on that A/T.

I guess the adage of "If it works well, you like the price, and you can readily obtain it" is a good one for ATF. Just make sure to change it frequently, just like the Honda techs do for their own vehicles. They definitely know something about this.

OF

 

[Hogan773]

hogan, by all accounts, it seems like DW-1 is measuring up. Man, that is wise action to not give Honda an inch when it comes to holding them to a warranty. Using an OEM ATF with a warranty still in force is a wise idea.

I'm of the opinion that anything is better than Z1 for "big" Honda products. Even though it is thinner than ATF-Z1, I'm convinced that they had to improve the anti-wear additives and FM package in the new DW-1.

It does amaze me that we are around 180,000 miles on our Accord, and it has seen nothing but ATF-Z1. Then again, it's old, light in weight, and only a 4-cylinder. No much stress on that A/T.

I guess the adage of "If it works well, you like the price, and you can readily obtain it" is a good one for ATF. Just make sure to change it frequently, just like the Honda techs do for their own vehicles. They definitely know something about this.

OF

I'll be doing my first drain/fill this weekend at 32k miles. (I don't think I missed a MM warning at 15K miles but I could be wrong). Rather than going nuts on a 3x drain/fill or a full flush, I'm just gonna do a 1x drain fill and see how the fluid looks. Unless it looks really skunked, I'll probably just do another 1x in another 12k miles or so (second oil change after). I figure 30 bucks of fluid every couple years is good insurance on my tranny.

 

[0dyfamily]

You're approach sounds reasonable to this old dog.

**snip**I figure 30 bucks of fluid every couple years is good insurance on my tranny.

This is so true. RinconVTR's Blackstone UOA on his Gen III Ody with DW-1 confirms that 15,000 miles is the bare minimum interval for doing the periodic single drain/refill. The Honda ATF DW-1 he was using was starting to increase its number of insoluble items and lose viscosity at that time, based on the report, and it was a little high on aluminum if I remember correctly...hope it wasn't that darned TCC control valve and the cylinder-shaped bore it resides in. So, like you I'm doing it a little bit inside of that, too! Mine is working out to around 10,000-12,000 miles for the interval just based on when I can get around to do it.

OF

 

[Hogan773]

You're approach sounds reasonable to this old dog.
This is so true. RinconVTR's Blackstone UOA on his Gen III Ody with DW-1 confirms that 15,000 miles is the bare minimum interval for doing the periodic single drain/refill. The Honda ATF DW-1 he was using was starting to increase its number of insoluble items and lose viscosity at that time, based on the report, and it was a little high on aluminum if I remember correctly...hope it wasn't that darned TCC control valve and the cylinder-shaped bore it resides in. So, like you I'm doing it a little bit inside of that, too! Mine is working out to around 10,000-12,000 miles for the interval just based on when I can get around to do it.

OF

Sounds good. But I never did anything at 15K miles (maybe I missed a MM warning or maybe it only starts at 30k miles).

I'll let you know how the fluid looks once I drain it. We do mostly around town driving with a few long roadtrips in between, we live in the flat midwest, and we don't tow trailers so I'm assuming that we aren't punishing the tranny as much as some.

 

[dgsbikes]

Dave,

Thanks for sharing this. Very helpful. I have a flush coming up and I have enough DW-1 to get that job done. But going forward, I wanted to see what you think of Castrol IMV? I have some questions for you and others experienced around here:

1. What do the higher viscosities on the Castrol over DW-1 mean? More drag but better lubrication?
2. Is Castrol IMV fully synthetic base?
3. Any details to the additive package on DW-1? Here's the one for Castrol
4. Note that the viscosities for Castrol on PQIAmerica are different from the ones you listed for Castrol IMV. The PQI tests were May 2013. What's the date on the AMSoil comparison?

I like Castrol IMV at the Walmart price point over AMSOil and might go with it over DW-1 if the Castrol IMV is indeed a much better product than DW-1.

Any users of Castrol IMV? Experiences?

That's a very good point about higher viscosity ATF helping to maintain fluid flow to the TC. Here is the referenced chart with the Amsoil products added, sorted on the 100C value. (Info obtained from Amsoil's web site.)

120C/ 100C/ ..40C/ .0C/ -20C/ -40C .... cSt at Centigrade temp/ Brookfield cP @-40C

....../10.00/ 53.70/ 405/ 1868/ 15,000 = RedLine Synthetic Racing 100% p/n 30304
....../ 8.00/ 36.60/ ...../ ....../ 10,500 = Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle
5.52/ 7.70/ 34.00/ 196/ 728/ ...... = GM OEM Dexron III-H (Petro-Canada)
...../ 7.50/ 38.5/...../...../9,755 = Amsoil Multi-vehicle synthetic
....../ 7.50/ 38.00/ 276/ 1269/ ...... = RedLine Racing 61.0%/ LW 39.0% (Synthetic)
5.36/ 7.50/ 34.00/ 205/ 798/ 5,200 = RedLine D4 (for Honda ATF-Z1) (Synthetic)
5.22/ 7.40/ 36.30/ 251/ 1100/ 10,040 = Mobil-1 Synthetic, Dexron III-H/ Mercon
....../ 7.20/ 36.00/ ...../ ...../ ...... = Castrol Dexron III-H (when it was licensed)
5.12/ 7.06/ 29.49/ 158/ 553/ ...... = Honda OEM ATF-Z1 (discontinued)
....../ 7.00/ 37.00/ 294/ 1477/ ...... = Penrite HDPS (semi-Synthetic for Honda DPSF)
4.87/ 6.93/ 34.87/ 255/ 1187/ 11,250 = RedLine Racing 50%/ LW 50% (Synthetic)
5.07/ 6.83/ 25.09/ 110/ 327/ ...... = Honda OEM DW-1 (Idemitsu Lubricants America)
4.50/ 6.40/ 30.70/ 210/ 931/ 4,500 = RedLine D6 (for GM Dexron-VI) (Synthetic)
....../ 6.11/ 28.18/ ..../ ..../ 8,400 = Valvoline MaxLife (Synthetic)
....../ 6.00/ 29.80/ ..../ ..../ ...... = GM OEM Dexron-VI (Petro-Canada)
4.25/ 6.00/ 29.50/214/ 1006/ 12,500 = Valvoline licensed GM Dexron-VI (Synthetic)
...../ 5.90/ 28.5/...../...../9,015 = Amsoil Fuel efficient synthetic
3.50/ 4.90/ 23.20/ 165/ 781/ 7,500 = RedLine LW 100% (Synthetic) p/n 30314

At 100C, it appears that Amsoil multi-vehicle is more viscous than Z-1 while Amsoil fuel-efficient is less viscous than DW-1.

I wonder if Honda fixed the TC problem in the 2007+ version of the 5-speed?

 

[0dyfamily]

dgs, for the 1st question: one of the worries regarding ATF viscosity in older Odys is that darned TCC control valve. If there is substantial case wear in the area it resides, you can end up with a fluid balance condition in that valve which results in a dragging TC clutch on hot days while idling in stop-and-go traffic if using thin ATF. It can kill the TC, the excess heat even changing the color of the TC's metal housing. This is something I would worry about, having a pair of Gen2's (2002 & 2003). So, people like me tend to just go with something like the more viscous AmSOil Universal instead of AmSOil's thinner fuel efficient variety. By the numbers, it seems the Castrol I-MV would also be a good fit for this same application where you're worried about the possibility of TC control valve causing TCC dragging in an old tranny.

2nd question: I don't know if Castrol I-MV uses synthetic base stock. Never could find out this info from their web page, or other forums.

3rd question: I don't think Honda will ever reveal what they put into their ATF DW-1. Canadian labeling laws allow Honda to market DW-1 as a synthetic, but it does not get the same legal privilege in the U.S. Like 02Ody02 said, there's more to this game than viscosity. So far, so good for DW-1 even though it looks a little thin on that chart. I really do hope it works. I just need to bite my tongue and observe what it does and not let my bias against ATF-Z1 cloud my judgment.

4th question: BP (owner of the Castrol brand) still posts the same viscosity numbers dave compiled for us. See this link for their current info sheet: Castrol I-MV Info Sheet

5th question: Have not seen a Castrol thread, but then again, no news means no complaints, and that's good news. I've seen a happy MaxLife users' thread. Lots of Mobil 1 folks. And then there are the guys who use generic Dexron III with Lubegard Platinum. And they are all happy with the results. Nothing negative about the Castrol offering.

My take, for what it's worth: Castrol meets JASO-1A, the latest Japanese engineering standard for a fluid achieving satisfactory operation of wet clutches. That's a good thing, because at least in 2002-2004 Odys, the 3rd clutch is the weak spot, and the TCC can be a problem as the trannies get older. For 2005-2006, it's only the TCC that is the worrisome component, but it is still one big wet clutch, whose operation JASO-1A addresses as being okay with Castrol I-MV. I started using MaxLife for the same reasons you are exploring: reasonable price, reputable brand name, availability at Wally World. I had 40,000+ great miles on MaxLife until inexpicably Walmart pulled it in my local area and filled their shelves with "Super Tech".

It's crazy what information is available for us consumers to make good decisions here. How crazy? Well, instead of using Kawasaki's 10W40 oil for our "almost new" Ninjas, we're using Rotella T6 5W40 oil originally intended for use in large turbodiesel engines. Almost fell over after reading all the long-time Ninja riders who have used this for the many oil changes in a couple of 250 Ninja forums. It meets the JASO-MA spec for motorcycle wet clutches, so it's a good fit for the little 250cc engines and their trannies, and as far as I can tell, it works great through all the gears when I'm out riding.

We need to start a Castrol I-MV users' thread.

OF