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Rear Suspension Height

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Atlanta Odyssey

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
The rear of my 2001 Odyssey rides way too low when the car is loaded for family vacations or when towing even a light utility trailer. Total load is within spec by 100 to 200 pounds but the suspension is nearly bottomed out all the time while the front always looks about the same with a light or heavy load.

Running lighter with 2 or 3 adults and a small child or two but no luggage the height seems fine in back too, though the ride feels a bit soft in the rear. Still, even when not sagging, I'd love a touch more clearance all the time to keep my low-slung 2" receiver from scraping on moderate to severe driveway angles for example. All my concerns are really in the back-- so far I have no issues up front despite the appx. 120k miles on the vehicle.

I have read a lot about the air bags to put inside the springs on the rear. I'm not too excited about the bags because of the leaking issues I've read about but so far I don't see any alternatives. Any suggestions? And while I'm dealing with this, what shock options may I have to look at that might also help keep the back of this minivin stay nice and stable (but not ride too harshly for a 1000 mile drive with my family). If I'm adding air bags and need shocks too it makes sense to do both at once--

Surfing the web, there also seem to be several brands of these bags-- what have people here tried? And are there any alternatives? "Back in the day" we'd have tossed on a set of air shocks and hit the road again in short order or maybe added shocks with their own coil springs around them. I see some of each of those listed on line but not for this vehicle...

One other matter-- I'm not the first owner and I have no idea if the plugs have even been removed but I'm a bit paranoid about pulling them now in case these have never been out. Is there anything I can use to improve the chance of getting the plugs out without harming the heads? Perhaps something to penetrate a bit before I put a wrench to the plugs?

Thanks!
 
#3 ·
#4 ·
Unless you go the custom spring route the Airlift bags are the best bet for solving the rear suspension sag when loaded. If you are going to do new shocks it definitely makes sense to do the bags at the same time. I just replaced mine with a KYB set and put in the bags at teh same time and the difference is increadible. I routinely carry around 3-500 lbs. of product way in the rear of the van and with the bags in I still have very good suspension travel where before I would bottom out all the time.
 
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
REAR Suspension Height

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I'll go ahead and deal with both Shocks and Bags at once. That makes sense.

Any more thoughts on shocks including the best source for them? I need to order soon-- want to get this all done next week for a cross-country outing with the kids (and most of the contents of our entire house it seems) the week following, LOL...

On the plugs, reading a couple of posts about plugs seizing I got a bit alarmed because these may never have been out of the car. (This is a 2001 Ody.) Maybe I'm overly concerned? Sounds like NGK is the general preference there-- would this be the for the NGK Laser Iridium plugs? I read in one place that those are OEM and in another that they are a good option but not OEM. I don't care about the cost (within reason) I want the best plugs I can get for this application. The car seems to be running fine but I mis-spoke on the total miles on the car-- we're actually at 138k miles. Surely they should be changed-- we're way past the scheduled time for that. The MPG seems to be dropping a bit; probably 17 for mixed driving and not much over 20 on the highway.

Same with the suspension issue for that matter (I just need this done the best and safest way). My time and the reliability of our primary family vehicle are worth WAY more than saving a few bucks on parts.

My actual preference would be to have someone local do this as I am REALLY short on time but not to use the dreadful local dealer obviously-- they are the worst! There used to be a place nearby that was a Honda specialist for probably 20 years. They were great but the guy retired and closed up shop. By chance are there any Atlanta people on here who know a good shop? I know it is a long shot but just in case I'm on the NE side of town near Northlake Mall.

P.S. my late night post caused a silly typo which after corrected seems not to show up changed-- "Sear Suspension" indeed; sorry about that.
 
#6 ·
Re: REAR Suspension Height

Atlanta Odyssey said:
P.S. my late night post caused a silly typo which after corrected seems not to show up changed-- "Sear Suspension" indeed; sorry about that.
Click to expand...
Fixed for you.

:)
 
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#7 ·
Many have good luck with the long life OEM NGK Platinum plugs.

Check out the link in my signature line for info on our 2001s.
 
#8 ·
An old mechanics trick

to remove (Stuck) sparkplugs:

First of all, you may not need this procedure. But, if you do not need this procedure to remove your plug(s), follow the advice below in regards to re-installation of your sparkplug(s), even if your vehicle is new(er) and sparkplug renewal is not yet required.

(Honda's sparkplug change interval is possibly long enough to cause damage to your head(s) when it is time to change the sparkplugs, be careful).

WARNING!!!
this procedure will work in MOST cases to remove stuck sparkplugs, but, your skill, patience (and luck) is required.

I, (and the ODY forum) will NOT be held responsible for your mechanical ability, (or lack thereof) and your engine. If you are not confident in your abilities, or your car seems "too far gone", take it to a mechanic, please.

A high mileage vehicle often has sparkplugs which seem impossible to remove, mostly because steel sparkplugs and aluminum heads are a bad combination. The sparkplug threads "rust" into the head, and removing the sparkplug carelessly strips the threads in the head, requiring an expensive repair. (If the plug is hard to remove, take it to a mechanic or follow this procedure) It happened to me once, and I ended up taking the head off, and having a mechanic tap and install a fix called a helicoil. WARNING! This did NOT work for me! I ended up taking the head off again, after the engine blew the sparkplug, (with helicoil still installed) out into the engine compartment.

I then had a metal insert installed, end of story.

I now, if I notice a problem, do this:


NOTE: Use a breaker bar, or, a socket wrench that can be locked into place. You do not want it to ratchet.

At first sign of the plug coming out hard, work the plug back and forth a *little* at a time, (counterclockwise until resistance if felt, then clockwise)

if you do this right, you will notice as time goes on, you will swing further and futher both ways, until the plug loosens, and finally is able to come out. Warning! This could take a while, (and you risk stripping the threads in the head at anytime), perhaps as long as 15-20 mins. TAKE YOUR TIME! Do NOT hurry this! (Those of you who are thinking twice about this, take it to your mechanic!


If the above procedure is working right, you will remove your plug(s) without damaging your head(s).


Some will recommend applying a little oil, or penetrant to the base of the sparkplug while removing it. That is an excellent idea.

Once you are done, use some Antiseize lubricant on the sparkplug(s) threads. (I use Permatex 133A, comonly available at autoparts stores. A substitute is fine).

Do NOT get it near or onto the electrode-end of the sparkplug. If you do, replace that sparkplug, it's ruined.

I also use this compound of ALL exhaust bolts and nuts. It really helps.

Gene
 
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#9 ·
The Airlifts are worth every buck. You have total control over the poundage and they are lifetime guaranteed for no leakage. I suggest going with the separate schrader valves, do some searching and you'll find some neat ideas on where to put them. I like behind the fuel door.

As for the plugs, I'd go OEM. Mine looked like new last year when I pulled them from my 2k Ody at 104k. A bit pricey but 100k is 100k. No problem removing them, so much easier than a Chrysler.
 
#10 ·
I just got back from the first trip with our newly-installed Airlift 1000 kit - Virginia to Walt Disney World and back - what an amazing difference. Had three teenagers in the back and all the luggage in the trunk (I used to put whatever I could fit behind the front seats and in the aisles to shift weight fwd) and with 32 psi rode level and didn't have that porpoising over big bumps. Absolutely worth the skinned knuckles, harassment from the wife ("are you gonna get done in time?!") and tense moments before pressurizing the system for the first time. Amazing results.

On some shallow swells you could get in a harmonic up-and-down for a bit, but my metric was the absolute lack of complaints from the rear-seaters. They didn't like 25psi (too bouncy) so I went to 35, which settled to 32 after a few pressure checks and rechecks. I couldn't help myself from checking the pressure, even though you lose .5 psi every time. I think I'll trust it more now and just check once a month.

I spent $690 at the Honda dealer getting the car prepped: new transmission, brake and power steering fluids, rear brake pads (I hate working on drum brakes), alignment, and spark plugs.

If you're worrieda about the plugs, take it to the dealer. They'll check them for free and give you a recommendation, breaking free any stuck plugs in the process. At 128,000 miles they said my plugs had another 15,000 miles in them easy, but I went ahead and had them replaced for $145.

Some notes from my Airlift 1000 install:

- I removed the springs. Very easy, but I had to remove the ABS sensors to keep from stretching/breaking the wires. Easy to do, just requires some patience and a very wide bladed screwdriver to pry the sensors out of the wheel.

- Clean the magnets before reinstalling as they'll pick up all the shavings from drilling the holes.

- There's really no need to mark the springs as they only go in 1 way, settling into the indent in the spring support.

- Cutting the bumpers was easy - razor blade and a short screwdriver pushed up the middle and pushing to the side to spread, and then a coping saw to get the final 1/8 inch the razor couldn't reach. I loosened the bumper and rotated it so I could always cut from the same (easiest) side.

- Use the provided template for drilling the holes. I went with a recommendation somewhere on the board to just line up where the nipple hits and ended up off by 1/4 inch. I did the next one with the template and was spot on. All I had was a 1/2 drill bit so I dremeled it out a bit, probably not to 3/4 inch.

- I went with the separate lines for each bag, and HIGHLY RECOMMEND taking the extra 10 minutes it'll take to go that route. Some folks have said the air pressure couldn't possibly equalize in a turn through such small air lines - which is of course completely bogus. Its also three less seals you have to worry about leaking.

- The valves are to the left of the fuel door and look professionally installed, if I may say so myself. Very easy to check and fill. I also spent $5 for some wire loom as I read on this board and felt much better about routing the airlines along the frame.

- It took me about 6 hours over two evenings, being VERY careful on the first side. That includes having to disassemble after the first hole, routing out one side with a dremel tool, and reinstalling. After figuring out what had to be done, I did the other side in just under an hour.

- Do it - well worth it!!!!!!!!
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
Thanks-- you're making me feel somewhat better about the air bag option-- my worry is a system-killing leak 500 or 1000 miles from home.

Last summer I blew out a rear tire on a heavily loaded Ody. in the exact middle of nowhere (somewhere in rural Mississippi) after midnight on the darkest stretch of interstate I have ever ridden on.

I was compelled to make it to a hotel with a full car plus a well-loaded rear (hitch mounted) cargo carrier, and rooftop carrier all on a pitiful "short spare" that was slightly under-inflated, all with my wife and three kids in the back of the car and my two young kids were SCREAMING from the moment the tire blew-- this one didn't just ease down, it exploded. Then flapping tire remnants beat on the underside of the car at freeway speed as I stopped and before I was off the road the tire had torn loose the plastic rocker strip that runs the length of the side of the car from wheel well to wheel well.

The blown tire had plenty of tread left and had been inspected by both myself and a local tire store only a couple of days earlier. We never did determine the cause...

You have never seen an Ody. running any closer to the ground in back as we were, limping to the nearest hotel and it was probably 30 or 40 minutes down the road before we found a place to stay-- what a night!

Anyhow, this is why I'm so concerned-- I was already running way too low in back and then the blown tire. I NEVER want to repeat that short spare situation-- I estimate that I had somewhere between 2 and 3 inches of clearance under the receiver when the car was not bouncing on compressed stops with that spare on...

I think my first choice remains heavier springs but I suspect that will have to wait a while-- I doubt I can come up with any in a week but I am going to try on Monday to see what is possible. No matter what, come July 1, we're on the road with a very full vehicle...
 
#12 ·
Sounds like a LOT of stuff to throw into/onto an Odyssey, though the tire should have handled it AOK. If you travel with all that on the airbags, I might be concerned too.

Gotta change the line below to "130K"...
 
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#13 ·
Atlanta Odyssey said:
....Last summer I blew out a rear tire on a heavily loaded Ody. in the exact middle of nowhere ....
Click to expand...
I occasionally tow a boat, so I carry a full size spare in the Ody's cargo well. Yes, I also have the anemic donut-sized compact spare in its compartment in the floor, as well.

The 2002 EX has a stock steel wheel with a still-serviceable Michelin Symmetry on it. My 2003 EX has an EX mag wheel with a Hankook H714 on it (it was the only one out of 4 that didn't self-destruct...now your story has me thinking about tossing that POS tire and just putting on a name brand tire).

The peace of mind of having the big spare is wonderful, and it really doesn't take as much room as I thought it would. I mounted them using the hardware to secure the flat tire in the cargo area.

OF
 
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Discussion starter · #14 ·
You're doing great on the tranny. Good for you. Despite my trying to convince a dealer that mine was shifting too hard just before the extended warranty ran out at what was it-- 107 or 109k that these ended up with? Mine made it to about 120k. Aamco was happy. I was not. I'm about to hit 139k now.

While we have 5 passengers on these trips, 2 of them are only in the 50# range so the passenger load in the 600 - 700# range.

Toss maybe 100# on the roof and no more than 200# on the hitch rack (probably under 150) and then a 150 to 200 pounds of sundries in the car. We're under 1200 easily. I cannot swear about the axle loads F / R but I suspect I'm good there too. Much of what is taking so darned much space is too many kids toys. Light, plastic stuff that have much volume but minimal weight. In fact there is generally a toy box full of toys in the middle of the car for which I pull out one of the middle seats so you can factor that into the weight equation as well-- I doubt the toy box and all the toys weigh as much as the missing seat they are replacing...

I also get similar "squat" when running around with a couple of extra teens in the car with my older daughter and zero cargo. These things (or at least mine) absolutely start to squat heavily several hundred pounds before approaching the 1277# capacity limit...
 
Discussion starter · #15 · (Edited)
0dyfamily,

I agree with you-- the short spares are the worst. Another really choice thing was that once I changed the tire I had to put the blown tire somewhere. My wife was so frustrated with the screaming kids she asked if we couldn't just buy a new wheel the next day and forget about the "bad one". I explained that this would not be the best plan...

BTW, the lovely little jacks they give us with these cars-- in the first place it is a huge pain to get the jack out of the cargo space when it is filled with cargo, but I don't think they expect you to change a tire with the van loaded near capacity and passengers staying inside the car. Still, reality is that one can't have small kids running around by the freeway while a tire is being changed on the side of the interstate after midnight.

The only good news was that since I had a seat out of the car, I could toss the blown tire where the middle seat should have been, then cover the tire (more or less) with the center floor mat to keep little hands away from the jagged steel hanging our of it, then toss the toy box on top of that. The next morning I went on a new tire hunt while my wife entertained the kids in the hotel...

My plan actually is to heft a full sized spare on top of the car for trips in the Yakima Cargo Basket up there but first I have to get the back stable enough to hold the luggage I don't want on top in the first place. I can toss on an old fashioned van-style cover and they even make a tire mounting kit for the racks. I don't personally care if it looks like I'm headed on Safari in Africa-- I just want a safe spare. Heck, "back in the day" when we all had trunks as big as swimming pools, I used to carry two full sized spares and a large tool box in the back of some cars and you'd hardly even see them down in the bottom. I think things were simpler then!...

Oh hey, I forgot I actually made a pic of the flat-- I just looked and found it. Let me see if I can post it... Fun, right?
 

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#16 ·
Wow...I'm amazed that the wheel lip didn't get banged up. Thank God you're all safe after that one.

OF
 
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Discussion starter · #17 ·
Thanks. I too was surprised that the wheel was undamaged...

I was running about 70-- the posted limit along there and the road was straight and there was no traffic. I coasted down as calmly as possible and coaxed it to a very straight stop as quickly as I could safely do so. As you would probably expect, it felt a lot like I was skating on ice with the back of the van fishtailing nicely--

Once I got the thing balanced on a jack, it felt like every passing truck was going to blow the car clean off the shoulder of the road!

All I can figure is that since I was running so straight at the time, the lack of lateral motion and the relatively quick stop let the sidewall protect the rim. Well, either that or my backup theory of plain, dumb luck...

It definitely got the old adrenaline going. One thing for certain-- I didn't have to worry about getting sleepy for the rest of my driving time that night! LOL.
 
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Atlanta Odyssey
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