[John Clark]

cnn, I've got 12 v hot to relay bottom slot. However, with key in position II a/c on i get nothing on top right relay slot. What would be the next step, what fuse/control gives it power with ignition on? Oh, 07 no navi.

First, we need to know exactly what your problem is. This is kind of an old thread.

Second, you need to understand the circuit you're working on. Third, you need to understand relays. Even if you think you know relays here is a great video on relays. There is a short part 2 that goes with it so watch that, as well.

The bottom slot is pin 1, the next one up is pin 2. The two that are side by side at the top should be 3 and 4. Pins 1 and 2 are your load side, or clutch side. If you have power on one side of that then that's good and tells you that fuse #12 is good. Use a test light to jump pins 1 and 2. You can use a jumper wire but you better be 100% sure you're on the load side of the relay or you will blow a fuse, or even possibly damage the PCM. That should put 12 volts from the power side to the clutch side and you should hear the clutch click on. If that happens then you know your clutch is fine and you have a problem on the control side of the relay circuit. If the clutch doesn't click when you jump pins 1 & 2 then most likely the clutch/stator is bad or there is a wiring problem between the relay and the clutch.

The other two terminals (3 & 4) are the control side of the relay. The PCM sends ground to the relay coil and the relay will close, turning on the compressor clutch. There should be power on terminal 4 all the time with key on ign II. Terminal 3 is the ground side switch coming from the PCM. The PCM controls when the compressor clutch kicks on and off. You can easily use a test light to check for 12v on terminals 3 & 4 and the one that has 12v on it with key on is the power side.

 

[SVO LOU]

Just wanted to bump this up and say thanks to the contributors of this thread, so much good info.
My AC stopped on my 214k mile Ody for the first time ever.
Checked pressure and it was 150psi on the low side.
Clutch wasn't pulling in but had 12V to the clutch.
Checked continuity of the stator and it was open so I decided to buy a stator only since the compressor still moved freely and the front of the compressor was dry.
Changed the stator today (please buy the miller snap-ring tools described in here) and the AC is blowing cold again.
Thanks again.

 

[John Clark]

That's good news! Additionally, always make sure you're clutch is cycling, too. The relay for the clutch like to fail closed and keep the clutch engaged all the time, including with the key off, which would obviously shorten it's life significantly.

 

[roboto65]

Hi I am limited on time and was wondering if the clutch and stator are available at the local parts house or will I have to buy a whole compressor and pull the parts off it. New guy Thanks.

 

[John Clark]

Hi I am limited on time and was wondering if the clutch and stator are available at the local parts house or will I have to buy a whole compressor and pull the parts off it. New guy Thanks.

Wouldn't that be a question for your local parts house?

 

[roboto65]

Well maybe maybe not called Oriellys and they only had the compressor so figured I would ask the forum where they have found the parts to save a little leg work on my part . My question was a general do local auto parts stores carry parts like that seemed to be a simple question guess not.

Found my answer a few pages back.

 

[John Clark]

Even if I found the part you need at my Napa store your Napa store may not carry them.

 

[SVO LOU]

That's good news! Additionally, always make sure you're clutch is cycling, too. The relay for the clutch like to fail closed and keep the clutch engaged all the time, including with the key off, which would obviously shorten it's life significantly.

Thanks for that, didn't know how they usually fail. I know mine was cycling because it was doing it a lot at first. Low freon because, I think, all of the times I stuck a gauge on there checking pressures and troubleshooting.

Hi I am limited on time and was wondering if the clutch and stator are available at the local parts house or will I have to buy a whole compressor and pull the parts off it. New guy Thanks.

They probably are available but chances are 'not in stock', I bought mine from an ebay link provided in one of the posts.
I went with stator-only because I had no play (or noise) from the clutch bearing and confirmed it when I had it off and checked it in-hand.

 

[DrivinAHonda]

My local dealership had them for $100. Autozone and O'Reilly didn't carry them. I ordered one from here:

A C Compressor Clutch Coil Compatible with Acura Honda Toyota Suzuki | eBay

 

[PAOLA]

When replacing the compresser, which we will have to do ourselves, do you absolutely have to replace the condenser? We just don't have that much money to work with. Any advice would be appreciated. We have a 2006 and the mechanic said the coil in the compressor went bad and fried the clutch.

 

[John Clark]

When replacing the compresser, which we will have to do ourselves, do you absolutely have to replace the condenser? We just don't have that much money to work with. Any advice would be appreciated. We have a 2006 and the mechanic said the coil in the compressor went bad and fried the clutch.

This depends. If the internals of the compressor itself are OK then you wouldn't need to replace the condenser or the compressor. Are you referring to the "coil" that activates the clutch or are you referring to something internal to the compressor? There is an electromagnetic coil that engages the clutch which spins the compressor. If the electromagnetic coil and clutch are bad then you can just replace the clutch assembly without even having to replace the compressor and discharge the system.

If the compressor went bad internally then it can shred pieces that work their way into the condenser. Thats when you have to replace the condenser and receiver dryer.

 

[allenjpl]

Ho-Ly Crap. Add me to the list of people who took on this job. I hunted around for the Miller tool, but only found one on ebay for $120. No thanks. Pretty sure it would have helped significantly, because those bloody circlips were definitely the trickiest part of the job. None of the snap ring pliers I owned went deep enough. Picked up a nice pair at Autozone, but there still wasn't enough clearance to get down and grab the ring. Ended up taking a pair of Harbor Freight straight-tips and hammering the tips into 45 degree angle, and the handle into a curved shape that worked better with the frame of the car.

I'm glad that job is done. I'm not 100% convinced it wouldn't have been easier to simply replace the compressor, and take the hit from the shop for vacuuming and refilling the 134a.

Time the job took: 2-3 hours on Thursday night, 2-3 hours on Friday night, 6 hours on Saturday.

Thanks for all the tips.

 

[cp1024]

Further to my post above, I put together a photo of:
TOP ---> Subaru Relay (made by Mitsuba) vs
BOTTOM ---> Honda Relay (made by Omron).

You can see that the design is identical, the flexible arm (connected to Terminal #1 on relay) goes up and down and touches the "V-Shaped arm" (connected to Terminal #2 on relay). Anyway, whether it is Subaru relay or Honda relay, the issue is the same: tarnish building up causing problems.

In the fuse box, there are 3 of these relays, only the AC Clutch Relay can cause expensive fix (AC Clutch/Pulley, Stator).

The other 2 relays (which control the fans Hi vs Lo speeds) are less of a problem, if either of these 2 relays fails, you can either see fan running all the time or not running at all, and may (or may not) cause overheat of the cooling system.

Anyway, for good measure, I think it is a good idea to replace all 3 relays once every 2 yr/24K, for $12 ---> it is good insurance, considering what we know about these quirky issues of the AC system.


View attachment 19209

Did you know that Honda also has relays in the Odyssey from both manufacturers? I would not go on appearance alone. I would test them. I think the red dust theory may be more internet hype than solid research.

 

[Rocketdeerdog]

I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who contributed to it. By far the best info on any problem I've ever researched on the Internet.

 

[jonesy99]

I am doing this job this weekend and have already ordered the Stator from Air Parts, trying to determine if I should do clutch and pulley as well. There are no sounds coming from belt system that would indicate these are bad but I was curious if I should do them while I have this all apart? What should I look for to indicate clutch plate and pulley need replaced as well?

What size bolt is needed to back the pulley off easily?

 

[rdubya]

I did clutch plate, pulley, and stator. Still much cheaper than a compressor & refrigerant charge/discharge (another $150 total). Also, on the site I used, hondapartsnow.com, I didn't see a way to order the whole assembly with pulley & clutch, which would have saved a lot of time, maybe 3 hours.

To remove the clutch plate, use the compressor bolt trick posted elsewhere (it really slides right off). I didn't have any other suitable bolts handy. The pulley is quite snug but came off with some light tapping with a rubber hammer handle after removing the circlip/snap-ring.

I had to drop the compressor (you can't thread the long mounting bolt in the clutch plate without dropping/angling it).

I'll post a more complete follow-up.

 

[rdubya]

This forum convinced me my issue was the typical stator coil open-circuit failure, and... it was. I fixed it for about $250 in genuine Honda parts ordered online (+ $30 in tools I didn't have), and no need to visit a mechanic to discharge/charge the refrigerant (+$150). Adding a genuine Honda compressor to this repair would also add +$526.

I noticed the compressor did not spin when the AC was turned on, but the engine RPM changed slightly (like the relay or something was activating). So first I checked the voltage was being delivered to the coil by disconnecting and measuring the wire from the relay box. See photo. Be careful, there are fans and belts moving! Then I verified the stator was open circuit by measuring resistance (infinity/open-circuit) of the other end (connector going to the coil) vs. the same chassis point.

At this point it was clear that the stator had to be replaced at the least, before finding out about the compressor.

So, I ordered both the coil/clutch parts from hondapartsnow.com:
38900-RGM-505 Clutch Set (includes pulley & clutch plate) ($160)
38924-RGL-A01 Stator Set (includes wire harness) ($73)

I also had to get some tools from Harbor Freight:
Serpentine belt detensioner ($20)
Small snap ring pliers ($6)
Snap ring ratcheting pliers kit ($10, not the $16 red/black case)

I rented the clutch holder tool from AutoZone (#27000, $25 rental, money back upon return)

I used jack stands for the whole front end, cut the wheels to the right, pulled back all of the fender trim that was forward of the drive axle, detensioned and loosed the serpentine belt (19mm socket), partly removed the subframe bracket (loosened 3x17mm bolts; removed front 2, then just swiveled it out of the way), and lowered the compressor (4x12mm bolts) in order to get a good angle on it. I dropped the compressor a bit and tilted it inside the engine bay. I don't think I could have done this without dropping the compressor. The 4 bolts that hold the compressor aren't that difficult, and it makes the real annoying steps (the clutch holder/removal tool and snap rings) much more tolerable.

I measured a 0.50 mm gap between pulley and clutch plate. Not sure whether that is standard or wider after wear, but it falls in the range posted elsewhere (up to 0.60 mm).

I then removed the clutch plate's 10mm bolt using a socket and the clutch holder tool. I threaded some of one of the long compressor mounting bolts into the center hole and it pushed the plate off.


I needed the small tip snap ring pliers (with 45 degree tips and extra widening trick posted elsewhere) for pulley removal.

(photo from somewhere online)
Also here is an example of the large one you'll need next for the stator ring:

Used large tip straight ratcheting snap ring pliers for stator removal (deeper and larger diameter, also larger holes for plier tips). Photo before removing the old stator:

Using all 3 washers received in the stator kit did not leave enough gap. Original pair of washers was too much gap; I used a combination of original washers and new washers to get a 0.6 mm gap between clutch plate and pulley.

Reassembled (note: used ~120 Nm torque on those 3 subframe bracket bolts). Also re-routed/checked the serpentine belt.

A/C blows cold air! This probably took me 6 hours, because I had to go to 2 different stores, had to go back to Harbor Freight to get the larger snap ring tool for the inner snap ring, etc.

 

[John Clark]

This forum convinced me my issue was the typical stator coil open-circuit failure, and... it was. I fixed it for about $250 in genuine Honda parts ordered online (+ $30 in tools I didn't have), and no need to visit a mechanic to discharge/charge the refrigerant (+$150). Adding a genuine Honda compressor to this repair would also add +$526.

I noticed the compressor did not spin when the AC was turned on, but the engine RPM changed slightly (like the relay or something was activating). So first I checked the voltage was being delivered to the coil by disconnecting and measuring the wire from the relay box. See photo. Be careful, there are fans and belts moving! Then I verified the stator was open circuit by measuring resistance (infinity/open-circuit) of the other end (connector going to the coil) vs. the same chassis point.
View attachment 88953

At this point it was clear that the stator had to be replaced at the least, before finding out about the compressor.

So, I ordered both the coil/clutch parts from hondapartsnow.com:
38900-RGM-505 Clutch Set (includes pulley & clutch plate) ($160)
38924-RGL-A01 Stator Set (includes wire harness) ($73)

I also had to get some tools from Harbor Freight:
Serpentine belt detensioner ($20)
Small snap ring pliers ($6)
Snap ring ratcheting pliers kit ($10, not the $16 red/black case)

I rented the clutch holder tool from AutoZone (#27000, $25 rental, money back upon return)

I used jack stands for the whole front end, cut the wheels to the right, pulled back all of the fender trim that was forward of the drive axle, detensioned and loosed the serpentine belt (19mm socket), partly removed the subframe bracket (loosened 3x17mm bolts; removed front 2, then just swiveled it out of the way), and lowered the compressor (4x12mm bolts) in order to get a good angle on it. I dropped the compressor a bit and tilted it inside the engine bay. I don't think I could have done this without dropping the compressor. The 4 bolts that hold the compressor aren't that difficult, and it makes the real annoying steps (the clutch holder/removal tool and snap rings) much more tolerable.

I measured a 0.50 mm gap between pulley and clutch plate. Not sure whether that is standard or wider after wear, but it falls in the range posted elsewhere (up to 0.60 mm).

I then removed the clutch plate's 10mm bolt using a socket and the clutch holder tool. I threaded some of one of the long compressor mounting bolts into the center hole and it pushed the plate off.


I needed the small tip snap ring pliers (with 45 degree tips and extra widening trick posted elsewhere) for pulley removal.
View attachment 88945 (photo from somewhere online)
Also here is an example of the large one you'll need next for the stator ring:
View attachment 88969

Used large tip straight ratcheting snap ring pliers for stator removal (deeper and larger diameter, also larger holes for plier tips). Photo before removing the old stator:
View attachment 88961

Using all 3 washers received in the stator kit did not leave enough gap. Original pair of washers was too much gap; I used a combination of original washers and new washers to get a 0.6 mm gap between clutch plate and pulley.

Reassembled (note: used ~120 Nm torque on those 3 subframe bracket bolts). Also re-routed/checked the serpentine belt.

A/C blows cold air! This probably took me 6 hours, because I had to go to 2 different stores, had to go back to Harbor Freight to get the larger snap ring tool for the inner snap ring, etc.

Nice write-up. It's nice to actually see someone troubleshoot something before just throwing parts at it. Great work!

 

[cnn]

A new Denso compressor is only $240 or so on amazon.
With many of these vans reaching 100K-200K miles, I strongly recommend a new compressor for many reasons:
- You don't know if you have shaft seal leak.
- You get new pulley bearing, clutch and new internals of the new compressor, so it is win-win.

Cost of R134a evacuation varies anywhere between $40-$70, but once it is done, you don't need to visit the mechanic again b/c:
1. You can rent vacuum pump and hoses at Autozone for free and vacuum your own system.
2. Dupont SUVA R134a is about $4/can x 3 = $12 on amazon or ebay, so the cost of new R134a is miniscule.


To summarize the cost of new compressor: $240 + $70 + $12 = $322.


The Denso Compressor DIY:
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/52-20...-2005-2010-odyssey/173122-diy-2007-honda-odyssey-ac-compressor-replacement.html

How to use Vacuum Pump etc.:
DIY: 1998 BMW 528i 160K Replacing AC Compressor - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

 

[bnschroder]

I am a new member to the club of failed stators. 2005 LX with 90K miles. AC stopped working, power to the relay, tested everything, but clutch wouldn't engage. I pulled everything out (those snap rings are a bit..) and the stator tests indeed open (infinite Ohms)
Now here is the question: There was some kind of rusty, brownish dust all around which makes me think its burned up friction material from the clutch plate, and there doesn't seem to be any friction material on the clutch plate (or the pulley for that matter).
I am assuming I need to replace both clutch and pulley (and of course the stator) - or does the pulley not have any friction material and doesn't need to be replaced?

P.S. I didn't have an adjustable clutch removal tool, but a classic adjustable oil filter wrench (the kind with an adjustable metal band) did the job easily

PP.S. Whoever posted to remove the clutch by turning a larger bolt into the center hole after removing the 10mm clutch bolt was a genius. I happened to have a matching bold and i didn't even need a wrench. Just screwed it in with two fingers and POP, the clutch plate just came off