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experience with Aisin TKH-002 from rockauto

50K views 73 replies 24 participants last post by  majiexpress_7101  
#1 ·
Hello odyclub community,

long time visitor the first time poster here, I read all threads relating to 3rd gen odyssey since I have 2005 exl with res, it has 202k miles on it, I purchased it in 114K back in 2012, it is a good car and I really like driving and the way it handles long trip. I do mostly maintenance by myself, I like working on it and making sure job is done properly.

I had a recent experience on Aisin TKH-002 timing belt kit as I know it is the kit everyone's favorite timing belt replacement. since the mileage on the car was 114K when purchased, I check its maintenance record found that it had recent timing belt service done at honda dealer. I waited until it reached 200K so I could replace the timing belt along with its related components (idler tensioner puleys, auto tensioner, water pump etc). Another reason I had timing belt replacement, tensioner was making ticking noise when the engine start in the morning. Knowing the fact that dealer just replace belt but nothing else I know the fact that related component had 200K miles on them.

Sooo I placed the order from rockauto's TKH-002 timing belt kit since it is proven not counterfeit ebay or amazon sellters. The kit had came the quality and condition was as expected the belt is mitsuboshi from thailand. On one weekend I meticulously followed the timing belt replacement procedure and installation went smooth, everything right on the spot timing mark and everything, I turn the crank several times check the marks it was dead on. I buttoned it up covers, accessory belt tensioner and harmonic balancer (cranshaft) pulley properly torqued, and thinking of another 100K would be good. I started the engine It started right off and no codes or anything it was so smooth.

After 2000 miles later, I realized there was a noise coming from timing belt area it was like warble/rattle or gurgling type of noise when engine idle, you could barely hear in the cabin but when you open the hood and listen carefully from timing belt cover side you could hear, it started bother me but the car drives perfect and no issues or codes anything, this weekend I decided to remove timing cover and have a close look at it to see if I did not properly torques tensioner, idler pulley or something wrong with it. I checked everything very snug and tight but what I realized that when you turn the crank bolt to have timing mark aligned some point while turning timing belt water pump side of the belt get really loose, crank sprocket to idler side or left side have proper tension. The slack on water pump side of the belt was not engaging even it was not driving water pump pulley due to lack of tension. But when you aligned timing marks and then check tension on water pump part of timing belt, it becomes tight again, that puzzled me very big. I started investigating if anyone out there in internet jungle experience the same thing as myself. I narrow down my search on google then I found by googling “Honda V6 aisin warbling noise” people having problem with aisin water pump and mitsuboshi belt the following links show the extend of the problem:


then I realized that the kit has problem with water pump and belt even someone mentioned in one of those forum that the belt was slightly longer then genuine honda’s one. I confirmed that by looking at the over extended shaft of the hydraulic tensioner.

So going to majestic honda site and ordering the timing belt and water pump and its gasket, I am waiting on the parts and then I have to do replacement of timing belt and water pump. But it is really royal pain in a$$ that redoing the job that was properly done the first time but you have to do it again just because kit has problem, it is really disappointing and upsetting. Other parts (idler and tensioner pulley and hydraulic tensioner built good quality.

And I thought aisin was OE water pump manufacturer and belt was good quality since toyota use in their vehicles, but honda uses unit ta for belt and yamada for water pump, they stopped using them long back for water pump.

I know it is a very long post it became but it should show my frustration, I wanted to share my experience with others so that you are not falling into that rabbit hole.

take care
 
#4 ·
I heard of this issue, water pump making gargling noises.

Contact Rockauto, the kit you bought is under warranty, so at least you can get a refund or something.
the problem with rockauto is that it just a website there is no real person to talk to.. Only phone number I can obtain is their headquarter, when you call they are specifically telling they dont provide customer service over the phone. I tried to warranty procedure but since return window closed the procedure lead me to exact replacement of the kit which might have same issue doing the same work for nothing, and that warranty replacement procedure they are charging the replacement kit and both way of shipping for a problem that you did not cause!!! Since the order placed last year October, refund will be no option.

Since water pump on/off engaging it is not constant flow of coolant, that causes gurgling but there is no overheating happening either. Should I leave it like this or get oem yamada WP and unitta belt kept the rest of component from majestic honda? I dont know what do you guys think?
 
#3 ·
Thanks for sharing your experience. As you pointed out, Aisin/Mitsuboshi is not actually OEM - Gates Unitta is OEM for the belt and Yamada is OEM for the water pump. Aisin/Mitsuboshi are Toyota OEM parts, though.

I wonder if you got a defective belt that was too long, or if all the Mitsuboshi belts that come in the Aisin kits are too long. I suspect it is the former, as the large majority of us who use the Mitsuboshi/Aisin parts don't have this problem.

I suppose at the end of the day, you can't go wrong with OEM when in doubt.
 
#5 ·
When i did the TB change (Aisin kit), i made markings on old belt with cam/crank sprockets and transferred it to the new belt to align it properly. Without that, it was very easy on the right side to skip one tooth. I had to kept the pulley really loose to align the timing belt to the marks on sprocket. When transferring the markings, i triple confirmed them along with a friend and the belts were exactly same size.

I personally know 3 vans excluding mine who used the Aisin TB kit and one of them have more than 10k on it. No noise or issues so far. These 3 vans, TB job was done at a local shop and they use the Aisin kit along with Honda coolant.

Wonder if you got a bad unit or the noise is just normal for their waterpump. Does the noise started only after 2k miles or gradually increased?

When you replace it with OEM, please update. Mainly the length of the belt, pump issues or whatever you found.

Any chance that you can record the sound with a extended microphone to the waterpump area? Also the video the slack you found on the belt?
 
#6 ·
When i did the TB change (Aisin kit), i made markings on old belt with cam/crank sprockets and transferred it to the new belt to align it properly. Without that, it was very easy on the right side to skip one tooth. I had to kept the pulley really loose to align the timing belt to the marks on sprocket. When transferring the markings, i triple confirmed them along with a friend and the belts were exactly same size.

I personally know 3 vans excluding mine who used the Aisin TB kit and one of them have more than 10k on it. No noise or issues so far. These 3 vans, TB job was done at a local shop and they use the Aisin kit along with Honda coolant.

Wonder if you got a bad unit or the noise is just normal for their waterpump. Does the noise started only after 2k miles or gradually increased?

When you replace it with OEM, please update. Mainly the length of the belt, pump issues or whatever you found.

Any chance that you can record the sound with a extended microphone to the waterpump area? Also the video the slack you found on the belt?
that was the procedure I followed I put it TDC mark it on the old belt with white marker then transfer those marking to the new belt, the number if teeth between from camshaft and rear camshaft mark is 64 which is the case here.
if it was one tooth off, it that case it should be loose all the time but it gets tighten when all timing marks aligned..
 
#9 ·
I used the kit on my 2007 Odyssey that I had at the time without any problems. It lasted an additional 100k miles before I sold it. I marked the belt with both cams and the crankshaft pulley before removing or loosening anything. Then I transferred those marks to the new belt carefully and then double checking the teeth between all of the marks just to make sure. Do you have an update on what happened?
 
#10 ·
+1 update?
I used the Aisin kit on my old van and the new. The new one, the HT became noisy and replaced with yet another Aisin kit (oem would be the only alternate) though I could have just done the HT by itself. As for the belt, if the size was good and you transferred marks then some other mistake as you would know then your markings do not line up when installed. WP issue, maybe.

Sometimes items are mis-boxed. This has happed to me with inner tie rod. Yeah, no person on rockauto as I had the same experience. It is all website-only driven, which is terrible. Comes with good and bad. Good prices on parts but once in a while, issues will occur like ours and you might end up loosing a few bucks even if not your fault.
 
#12 ·
I lived with the "warbling" noise from the Aisin kit for 100K miles, the noise was new when I installed the kit. Most people will never notice or say anything about it. I was never able to diagnose the real issue until I saw this thread and the associated thread at acurazine for a TL. I didn't have any issues however, running it like that for 100K miles, the hydraulic tensioner did not leak oil either. The noise completely went away when I went back to all OEM timing components including water pump for the very next timing belt job, and I DID NOT use the shim kit to shim the idler pulley. The shim for idler pulley is not the source of the warbling sound. If you want to use the Aisin kit, use the 2 pulleys + water pump, but stick with OEM Unitta belt and hydraulic tensioner.
 
#13 ·
Wow - I totally disagree with this. I am very sorry you had a bad experience with the Aisin kit, but you should not condemn this kit for everyone else just based on your one data point. I think your experience is a rare exception to what most everyone here feels is the best kit available for the Odyssey. There is nothing wrong with the belt or tensioner that comes with the Aisin kit.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I am not condemning the kit, it lasted 100K miles with no failure. But if you are anal enough to notice the extra noise and sound, and try to fix it, you would do what you can to fix it. Some people don't care if their cars is leaking oil and just put a cardboard under the car. I care if there is extra noise from the engine area. Aisin kit is fine if you want to save $300 and disregard the warbling sound.

You didn't hear me say the Aisin kit suck did you?!
 
#15 ·
I have replaced the timing belt twice with the Aisin kit from Rockauto on mine without any issue. The latest replacement was just last Sept 2021, and the belt came out looking like it could last another 100k miles.

The OP's scenario is an exception and not the rule. There was not mentioned of how much longer the belt was, but if the extra length was still within the tolerance of the tensioner (meaning it can still keep the belt tight) then it should not be a problem. After all that's what the tensioner is supposed to do, is it not?

I think the OP's problem was more likely with the water pump or the tensioner since he could clearly see the belt was loose. Hence, a working tensioner will always keep the timing belt tight. If the timing belt is loose, my first suspect would be a bad tensioner and not a slightly longer belt.
 
#19 ·
The OP's scenario is an exception and not the rule. There was not mentioned of how much longer the belt was, but if the extra length was still within the tolerance of the tensioner (meaning it can still keep the belt tight) then it should not be a problem. After all that's what the tensioner is supposed to do, is it not?
In the process of transferring white marks I had in the original belt I clamped them side by side so that it will not slide off, I was very careful about that, I compared both belt lengths during the process it was the same, not longer after I installed the aisin mitsuboshi belt, I made several (10 times or more) checking the timing marks it was dead on, then I buttoned it up. In the second inspection when I realized garbling noise, I opened up the cover idler pulley side was very tight, looseness only happens between two camshaft sprockets where water pump is, other places seems to be ok as far as tightness concerned, HT shaft seemed to me little bit overextended, but timing marks were dead on, if there was stretch in the belt it could have been timing mark slightly off but it is not..
Bottom line, hopefully when she reaches to 300K if have change timing belt again, as suggested, I would replace oem belt and HT tensioner, I would not touch water pump and pulleys, that should address the noise
 
#17 · (Edited)
Sorry for the late reply guys: I was busy with life now taking a break and relaxing by reading odyclub..
Update: I learned to live with that grabling noise is still there but taking apart and replacing with oem will cost for just fixing the noise, I trust reliability of aisin kit (by reading putting 100K with noise on other threads or tensioner not leaking), I guess we need to turn radio's volumes a bit up :) , I hesitated reordering and redone the job all over again and now warranty period is over, there is no heating issue but I know the kit has some noise problem for sure. Now I am on 213K I put 13K so far going well (except the noise)
 
#20 ·
I wasn't the first to mention this. It's been discussed before. If you can live with the noise, then that's fine. If you think it's a problem like I do, then use OEM belt and hydraulic tensioner.

 
#21 ·
I read every post, and don't see where he found the cause of his noise. And I get the sense problems like this happen frequently to the starter of that thread, perhaps associated with a somewhat impatient approach to the work.
 
#24 ·
It says it affects all 05-08 Odysseys, but like you, I don't recall ever having this issue both before and after my timing belt was replaced.
 
owns 2006 Honda Odyssey EX
#25 ·
The kit I got was from aisin on amazon. I know that the mitsuboshi timing belt isn't oem. The Unitta (Gates) is the oem manufacturer. The water pump is aisin and is the oem for our model year (they have since switched to yamada). The bearings I got were koyo which is oem. The tensioner I am not sure of. My only complaint when getting the kit was on the water pump. There was silicone under the rubber gasket and it looked old, was hard and it made the gasket uneven. My research at the time showed that there shouldn't be any silicone under the gasket so I removed the rubber gasket and carefully removed all of the silicone, put the rubber gasket back. It was now even and I installed it on the car without any problems. The only thing I can think of is that there are a lot of these kits and maybe they have been sitting for a while. You initially didn't have any problems, but developed problems after 2000 miles. Since the belt and tensioner aren't oem, I would start there. You could try an oem tensioner without havening to take everything apart. The tensioner might have gotten weak. If not, then I think the belt would be the culprit.
 
#26 ·
Well, his real problem is not the noise, but it's the looseness between the front cam pulley and rear cam pulley (water pump area as described by him). Looseness means it can skip a tooth or two then game is over.
 
#27 ·
Mitsuboshi does not currently make Honda's OEM belt, but they have in the past.
 
owns 2006 Honda Odyssey EX
#32 ·
To OP,

I believe your timing belt kit installation is spot on. You did everything right. Highly doubt those belt stretches to the point of causing failure. They are not built that way. They will crack and fail but not stretch. The culprit seems to be the Aisin kit itself is missing a Honda TSB part - a shim - that is required for those years. So, if that kit did not have it, the noise is likely to occur which it did in your case.

I think this is your issue....Fast forward to 3 min. mark...

That Honda TSB is mentioned here...2006 Honda Odyssey Technical Service Bulletins

Which links to this....http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/A08-045.PDF
 
#34 ·
+1 for the warbling sound on my Aisin TB kit…
thought it was the serpentine belt tensioner but looking more like the issue is with the aisin timing belt
If you take off the belt and run the engine, warble sound present would be from water pump. If serpentine belt tensioner, it is not part of any kit. Have got warble sound from even Toyota OEM parts before, which were replaced with Aisin parts in all our toyota and honda vehicles. So far no issues.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Honda TSB is for idler bearing but when I had second inspection, I looked at the from timing cover if there is scuff marks on it and lower timing cover as well, also side of of the timing belt should be worn due to rubbing, there were none, that means the belt is not touching cover or misaligned
About removing serpentine belt and look for noise, I recently replaced serpentine belt tensioner and oem serpentine belt, but the noise is still there.. It is definitely coming from timing belt section (WP for specific)
 
#37 ·
I found this picture which someone posted on this board awhile back. I don't recall the author's name, but it is useful if you are marking your timing belt.

Image
 
#38 ·
@celicool, thank you for sharing the information, I found the image you sent during the investigation of garble noise, I counted the number of cogs on the removed belt (original one), it was 64 that means I marked and transferred them correct to the aisin belt (that is between rear and front camshaft)
My difficulty with crankshaft was where to take reference outer edge bottom, side therefore I did not mark it, besides If my number of cogs between front camshaft and crankshaft one cogs longer, would it throw crankshaft sensor error? so far there is no error thrown, also I did installation error why the others are having the same noise problem, are they doing it wrong as well? I dont think so, I believe that the kit has some problem it is not as genuine as oem but reliabile
 
#39 ·
UPDATE on garbling sound is gone once I switched to OEM belt and water pump, it was not installation error or something else.
Today I replaced Aisin belt and water pump with OEM, got it from dealer, the noise was bothering me and getting louder, considering the crazy prices of car nowadays, I did not want to risk to junk the car if timing belt jump or something happened related to timing components go wrong.
I guess take of this story is that anything crucial to operation of the engine (timing components, sensors etc.) always go for OEM, you will cry once for the price but you will be doing the job once and be done with that.
I hope this help someone.
 
#41 ·
UPDATE on garbling sound is gone once I switched to OEM belt and water pump, it was not installation error or something else.
Today I replaced Aisin belt and water pump with OEM, got it from dealer, the noise was bothering me and getting louder, considering the crazy prices of car nowadays, I did not want to risk to junk the car if timing belt jump or something happened related to timing components go wrong.
I guess take of this story is that anything crucial to operation of the engine (timing components, sensors etc.) always go for OEM, you will cry once for the price but you will be doing the job once and be done with that.
I hope this help someone.
Glad you got it worked out. Sorry to hear that the Aisin kit didn't work out. I had no problems using it for my 2007 Odyssey. I have a 2012 Odyssey now and it's due for a timing belt change. Seriously debating on whether I should use the Aisin kit again or stick with OEM.
 
#40 ·
FYI,

For anyone reading this and intrigued by the timing belt. The top of the belt between the rear cam and front cam aligns between the belt teeth. So count 64 teeth between the rear cam mark and the front cam mark. The right side of the belt between the front cam and crankshaft aligns between the teeth at the top but on the tooth at the bottom. So on the right side, count 68 teeth including the bottom most tooth. The bottom most belt tooth should be aligned straight down 6 o'clock and directly across from the Woodruff Key which should be vertical up at 12 o'clock and pointing to the oil pump mark.

When I did my first TB I was forced to cut the old belt and just made new marks on the new belt. I marked two teeth for the rear cam, again aligns between the teeth. I marked two teeth for the front cam, also aligns between the teeth. I marked one tooth for the crankshaft. I hope that helps someone.

P.S. My Rockauto Aisin kit makes no bad noises.
 
#42 ·
I think the Aisin kit is high quality and the one to get.
Genuine Honda parts would be fine too but much more expensive. I have the Aisin kit installed and bought another one for installation in about 50,000 miles. A couple people here have reported issues with it, but I still think it is the only kit to consider. (Honda does not sell a kit).
 
#43 ·
I think the Aisin kit is high quality and the one to get.
Genuine Honda parts would be fine too but much more expensive. I have the Aisin kit installed and bought another one for installation in about 50,000 miles. A couple people here have reported issues with it, but I still think it is the only kit to consider. (Honda does not sell a kit).
Me too! I have an Aisin timing belt kit on standby for next schedule @ 354K miles.
 
#48 ·
Just like Apple, it's the price you pay for the logo.
 
owns 2006 Honda Odyssey EX