I have noticed exactly what you describe on my 2018 EXL. It is very startling and that 1 second delay is enough to make cross traffic too close for comfort. Then when it suddenly guns, your passengers think you are driving badly

 

Exactly. The van started out as my wife's daily driver, and was very aggravating for her, and made her feel unsafe. Now I'm driving daily and understand her aggravation. Your passengers think you are just a bad driver and gunning the engine at takeoff.

 

Welcome aboard, Lilfish ! I drive a 2018 EX and have had the same problem with the 9-speed. It was cured by a software update, however, it has recently returned during very cold days. It doesn't happen often but when it does, it is a nuisance.

I assume you're out of warranty? When this happens to your car, what are your weather conditions? Is it extremely cold? Sadly, I think this is a design issue and no dealer is going to handle the problem with competence. On the other hand, it can be dangerous when you need to move your car out of the way quickly. It will take a catastrophe and a lawsuit before Honda will step up to the plate. Perhaps you could mention this to your the dealer and see if you get any action. At the very least, if their techs can't figure it out, they should make a call to the Honda U.S. tech line. Please keep us posted and perhaps give yourself extra time at busy intersections where you need sudden power.

 

I assume you're out of warranty? When this happens to your car, what are your weather conditions? Is it extremely cold?

Thanks for the welcome to the forum and taking the time to reply.

It was past the 36,000 mile warranty when I purchased, and I guess now about at the end of the 60,000 powertrain warranty as well.

Because the issue is intermittent, I've looked for any pattern to inform the dealer about, but haven't yet discovered anything noteworthy. It could be happening slightly more often in the extreme cold, but not enough of a difference to say this for sure. We had a snap of extremely cold weather in Memphis, TN (sub 32 f deg daytime temps) recently and it didn't happen every time or anything like that. Back to 60 deg days here and the issue still occurs. I don't have a long commute (~10min), so the engine may not be fully warmed up when it happens. Don't have a long enough commute to know if it happens less after the engine is fully warm.

Perhaps unrelated issue, but have had to replace my battery twice in the last year (2nd time was under warranty still), and the issue seemed to decrease frequency with a new battery, but then increase frequency just before the battery needed to be replaced again. Next time I take it to the dealer, I'm going to ask them to check the battery again. Wondering if some sensor isn't getting enough power or something weird like that.

 

lilfish

This is a known issue with the German generic ZF 9 speed transmissions. This forum even has a post about joining the class action against honda concerning the very issue, among other issues, concerning this transmission. You might try and join the case.

As for correcting the issue, the dealer service managers have no solution for it because American Honda has not , will not, can not provide one. It’s the reason the nine speed ZF transmission only showed up for two years in the Odyssey.

I have the same issue. If you take a moment to disable ECO mode each time you get in the vehicle, that will remedy most of the hesitation issues. You will lose fuel MPG’s, however.

I’ll never buy another Honda/Acura again without a full in-depth research project. Any of their products NOT made in Japan BY the Japanese have all sorts of quality issues. Another post by my user name outlines many found on my 2019 EX-L when I bought it brand new. I’ve been very disappointed with what I got for the amount I had to pay.......never again will I be hooodoooed like this again.

On a brighter note, I own a 2020 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid SHAWD. Every system, every item on and in the vehicle is as it was designed and operates with an intent that the driver would expect. Some of the exact same systems and hardware are utilized on the current generation Odyssey. The systems on the Odyssey don’t operate with the same expectation or precision. Many owners of Odyssey on this forum have commented that they shut down these systems as annoyances or dangers presented.

 

This is a known issue with the German generic ZF 9 speed transmissions. This forum even has a post about joining the class action against honda concerning the very issue, among other issues, concerning this transmission. You might try and join the case.

As for correcting the issue, the dealer service managers have no solution for it because American Honda has not , will not, can not provide one. It’s the reason the nine speed ZF transmission only showed up for two years in the Odyssey.

Well, that's not what I was hoping to hear, but appreciate it nonetheless.

I have the same issue. If you take a moment to disable ECO mode each time you get in the vehicle, that will remedy most of the hesitation issues. You will lose fuel MPG’s, however.

The issue seems to happen to me whether or not eco mode is engaged. Are you saying I need to push the eco mode button to turn it on and back off each time I turn on the car, and that will avoid most of the hesitation issues? Not worried about fuel MPGs right at the moment, so have been driving with the eco mode turned off by default.

 

lilfish


On the center stack left of the electric shift plate there is an ECON button. When disabled the instrument panel behind the steering wheel will not show the ECON icon lit in the bottom left of the panel display.

Keep it turned off for several drives to learn the difference. Once you turn it back on you should be able to feel a marked difference in throttle response.

 

lilfish


On the center stack left of the electric shift plate there is an ECON button. When disabled the instrument panel behind the steering wheel will not show the ECON icon lit in the bottom left of the panel display.

Keep it turned off for several drives to learn the difference. Once you turn it back on you should be able to feel a marked difference in throttle response.

Right, so I've been driving with the eco mode turned off - no econ light on the panel. When I turn eco mode back on, then the throttle does respond more slowly, as expected, but this is a different issue from the throttle not responding at all.

 

Not sure if this is going to help.. but as mentioned, the german transmission software is.. lacking. Whether it was designed for comfort or smoothness, it's very annoying. On my latest BMW the problem is as painful as described. I can, however, swap between different sport modes etc that help this problem. The big help is, however, a pedaltuner or pedalbox. I know it'll be a while before anyone actually changes/updates the transmission software, but this "device" helps all the drive by wire (electronic) pedals.

I did quickly look, and although a lot of honda's are listed (Accord, CRV, Civic..) The Odyssey is not. I would think they do use the same assembly across a lot of models.

It basically changes the potentiometer readout from the gas pedal, so that programmed in "dead spot" can be tailored out. Someone might want to look into it/contact the company.

 

lilfish

Mine has “no response at all” on every decell turn-in and then press pedal......nothing happens ......then chirps the wheels the same feeling and effect you describe.

Nothing will fix it. My 2019 EX-L now has 18,648 miles. It’s new for all intents and purposes. There’s nothing short of pulling the transmission and TCU and swapping it with the 10 speed and it’s TCU that will make it any better.

It’s a dud transmission. It’s all over the net on almost every vehicle manufacturer represented forum out there where these transmissions were installed.

Wishing you and yours the very best.

 

lifish,
It sounds like you have a problem in your throttle position sensor (TPS) changing resistance foot pedal resistance into your CPU. I do not know how Honda built this TPS in the Honda but as far as any variable acting resistor can fail, in a given position, and then some times work as it never had a problems, it cheap enough I would try to replace just that.
I could not find the part on Honda part website, as I may not be calling it by the proper name.

 

It would be great if it were something this simple, but I would expect a TPS going bad to create error codes the dealer would have caught the first time around? Certainly won't hurt to ask specifically about this when I take it back in.

 

To quickly rule out a TPS problem, bring the RPMs up to about 3,000 using the Sport mode paddles. Hold the speed constant and if the engine "hunts" or hesitates, the TPS is the likely culprit. It will feel like a miss in a spark plug from cars of long ago. An import specialist mechanic taught me that years ago .

 

Tried this on the way home, and did not have any trouble keeping the speed/RPMs constant with steady pedal pressure.

However, excitingly, while in sport mode I identified a way to recreate the issue every time. This should help me greatly in communicating the issue to the dealer.

The issue is actually the gear shift between 1st and 2nd gear, but only when the pressure on the accelerator is released briefly and then pressed again. i.e. if you keep even pressure on the pedal while shifting from 1st to 2nd, there is no issue. If, however, you start to accelerate in 1st, then let off the gas pedal shift to 2nd and hit the pedal again there is a significant lag time before the throttle responds.

Once I figured this out in sport mode I could recreate the sensation in regular Drive mode every time by gently starting to accelerate, let off the pressure at about 5 mph and pressing the pedal again. This is why left hand turns are problematic, because you start to ease into the intersection let off the gas then try to hit it again to make the turn.

Previously, I thought it wasn't responding at all from a dead stop, but evidently I was wrong - it starts to respond in 1st gear but quickly starts switching to 2nd and lags in the transition.

 

Very unlikely failure.

 

Agreed. Even throughout the 80s and 90s, it was rare.

 

Please update post dealer inspection. I’m following this closely and curious to what the resolution is.

 

My 2019 EX-L Odyssey hasn’t done this yet, and I’m hoping it doesn’t start, but I’m sure interested in what becomes of it, if anything, with Honda Corp.

What’s strange is my 2014 Accord, V6, with the six spd trans does this. It’s exactly how you have explained it, and the dealership, for some reason has no clue, can’t duplicate, etc, etc....
It is very dangerous for sure, especially making left hand turns in my situation.

 

The van is at the dealer since yesterday morning. Initially they called me back to say they couldn't recreate the issue. They thought the issue was a purposeful limiting the power available while making a hard turn. But once I gave detailed troubleshooting steps directly to the guy test-driving vs the service advisor, he called back to say he could feel what I was "interpreting" to be the issue. Said there were no error codes or diagnostic issues he could find with his equipment that could indicate there was something to fix. After talking it through with him, and insisting it was a dangerous issue that our friend's identical van doesn't have, he decided he would get his mechanic to reset the software to erase whatever it has "learned" about driving habits etc. to start fresh again. I'll drive again with the software reset and see if this solves the issue - just wanted to update all of you who may be following along. Appreciate your help and insights.

cc @fuego @Hodna

 

After driving for a few days, the software update did not fix the issue. Not sure what options I have left, but doesn't seem like there is much left to be done about it...

 

Sorry it didn’t improve it. Just feel the corporate love from Honda that we all are feeling.

There’s nothing that customers can do to fix it. It must be American Honda.

 

I have logged several posts on this forum re "stumbling" or "hesitation" or "you-could-die-soon" behavior from our 2018 Elite with the 10-speed. So it is not exclusive at all to the 9-speed POS.

Purchased our Ody in mid-2017 - one of the first shipped to SoCA. Had a 2006 EX-L that was excellent over 12 years.
I worried that being an Early Adopter caused my issue; thanks to other posters with newer vehicles that doesn't seem to be the case - so thanks for that, lol!

The problem surfaced 6-9 months after purchase. Contacted dealer, did test runs etc and there was error codes to be found. Filed official case with Honda HQ - still waiting for a response 3 years later.

I doubt if anyone from Honda HQ reads these forums - but on the 1% chance they do:

THIS IS A DEADLY PROBLEM.
WHEN SOMEONE (OR MANY) GETS SERIOUSLY INJURED AND/OR DIES AND THE SHARK LAWYERS FILE A CLASS ACTION SUITE, THESE POSTS WILL BE PART OF THE EVIDENCE THEY BRING TO COURT TO PROVE THAT YOU KNEW ABOUT THE PROBLEM AND REFUSED TO ACTIVELY PURSUIT A REMEDY.

I'm no Master Auto Mechanic but it has to be inside the millions of lines of code running the various computer systems either the Engine Management module or the Trans Module or both. Since it is happening in the 9-speed and the 10-speed, and (I assume) those Trans controllers are different, that tends to point to engine management.

Who knows? - with all the new electronics introduced in this generation, it could be tied to the 12v main battery being such a weak component with the auto start function. Which I always turn off.

 

I have logged several posts on this forum re "stumbling" or "hesitation" or "you-could-die-soon" behavior from our 2018 Elite with the 10-speed.

would love it if you would record your experience here:
Transmission Survey + 9/10 speed detailed info (One...

 

When you say software update, are you talking about this service bulletin? We had the same issue and also would slam into gear around 25mph. After the service bulletin was applied, no issues.

 

that looks promising. Has this helped anyone with their transmission problems?

 

My 2019 Touring had the same problem with a slight hesitation from a dead stop. It had it from the time I purchased it. It was very slight and not noticeable enough for my wife to complain about. Since it only felt that way from a stop, I thought it was an air flow or air volume issue. I never thought it was a transmission issue. I changed to a K&N high flow air filter and the hesitation from dead stop seemed to go a way. YMMV

 

I would suggest doing a little more research on that K&N air filter especially if you are in a dusty area. They have been proven to let dust into the intake and engines with no real benefit to performance.

 

I agree 100% with the issues and concerns that have been expressed in this thread regarding the hesitation when pressing the accelerator, particularly at the low speeds. We own a 2018 Odyssey and we've been dealing with this issue pretty much since we've purchased it in October 2017. I thought it was just that the Odyssey had poor acceleration, but it's become obvious that there is something MUCH BIGGER going on. The scariest times have been when making a left hand turn when there is oncoming traffic. That moment when the vehicle doesn't respond to pushing light pressure on the accelerator and then suddenly lurches to get you across safely can be very disconcerting. When driving locally (it's fine on the highway), I'm constantly feeling like I'm having to baby the vehicle to get it to accelerate smoothly. At present, I will never buy a Honda Odyssey again.

 

Sorry to hear, but agree this is my exact issue too. Going back to the dealer soon to ask them to reset the software to relearn driving habits again. Didn't help last time but since they don't have anything else to suggest, will try again...

 

I hear you, justinkron. I spoke with my service manager about this a month or so ago and he said these 9-speeds are meant to be driven hard. Babying the pedal doesn't work. That's all well and good but I wonder if Honda is willing to send me a few extra bucks per month for the extra fuel they're costing me, just so I don't get killed due to their engineering incompetence.

 

Hi Everyone. Just saw this post after googling the hesitation issue. I've been having this same problem but now with my kids going to school I've been in situations of merging with oncoming traffic that has put me in some sketchy situations. I just took my van to the dealership and the service advisor's comments didn't exactly make me feel any better:

"This is just how these Odyssey's were built"

"We get this complaint all the time and there's nothing we can do, we just simply get yelled at"

"Honda hasn't released an update or recall to address these issues"

"The best we can do is drive it around a bit and check for error codes"

My wife is just about ready to trade the van in for a loss for the safety of our family.

 

Yep, I hear you loud and clear. My wife has been driving our second vehicle and I've been driving the van because of this issue. I drive more aggressively than her, so the issue occurs less frequently, but am constantly aware of needing to be sensitive to how I drive to avoid putting myself in a bad situation. It's a good time to sell, and I could get more for the van than I paid for it in February 2020 despite the miles we've put on it, due to the crazy market, but that also means it's a bad time to buy a replacement. Might have to just bike for awhile!

 

Lilfish, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't your 2019 EX-L a 10-speed? I have a 9-speed 2018 EX and have experienced the same thing. It hasn't happened too much lately. I question whether the cause is actually in the transmission. Could it be the gas pedal software, if there is any? I don't think there is a throttle cable. The signal for more power is sent by wire instead.

Honda has a legacy of, "If we can't find an error code, the problem doesn't exist and hence, we can't fix it." We're not talking about a radio knob that keeps falling off or a tailgate that opens way short of where it should for taller people. Those are inconveniences. This hesitation issue is a real-life threat to our safety. I don't know if legally it's part of the safety checklist. If it was, Honda would be on this like scum on a pond. The issue is similar to a poorly tuned or timed car of yesteryear. Hesitation was caused by all kinds of things but because it was classed as engine tuning, it wasn't part of the safety checklist, that I know of. I wish it was!!

Vintagepokedad, that is an amazing set of excuses they gave you. Here's my responses:

"This is just how these Odyssey's were built."
So some engineers stayed up nights trying to figure out how to get us killed at busy intersections by reducing power at random times?

"We get this complaint all the time and there's nothing we can do, we just simply get yelled at."
So Honda Corp admits they can't figure it out and are yelling at the dealers by means of a temper tantrum?

"Honda hasn't released an update or recall to address these issues."
And they won't until they take this problem seriously. Perhaps their legal department should advise them about the consequences of a wrongful death suit, never mind, the subsequent terrible publicity.

"The best we can do is drive it around a bit and check for error codes."
This "let's look to the computer to give us the answer through an error code" crap is getting old. How can the computer spit out an error code when in the first line of excuses, they admitted this hesitation is normal and actually a design trait?

Do I smell a class action lawsuit before it's too late and someone gets killed? I know that takes time and likely huge dollars. Does the US have some obscure law you can invoke that would call Honda to action? I don't know about Canadian law.

 

Lilfish, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't your 2019 EX-L a 10-speed? I have a 9-speed 2018 EX and have experienced the same thing. It hasn't happened too much lately. I question whether the cause is actually in the transmission. Could it be the gas pedal software, if there is any? I don't think there is a throttle cable. The signal for more power is sent by wire instead.

It's the touring and elite models that have the ten speed - to the best of my knowledge, my '19 EX-L with navi is still the 9 speed tranny. I agree though that it is not the transmission itself causing issues, but a software issue. The transmission shifts smoothly when steady power is applied to the pedal and on higher gear shifts. It's only at low speeds when you are pressing and letting off the pedal and then pressing again that seems to cause an issue, which I'm assuming is a software glitch. Seems like the computer is thinking (technical term) about whether it needs to stay in 1st or switch to 2nd gear. Once it makes up it's mind (again pardon the technical jargon), and switches into 2nd then it tries to catch up to where it should have been already.

 

Okay, thanks for the clarification, lilfish. Good to know.

 

Ladies and gents. I had to let go of this car. After getting those excuses from the service manager and knowing that we weren't going to get support or any fixes, my wife and I didn't want to take any chances and we sold it. My wife didn't want to take any chances as just one bad scenario with getting no response from the vehicle could be a VERY BAD SCENARIO. I'm still going to be watching that class action lawsuit as more updates come through.

 

Can't say I blame you. Can you let us know what you replace it with? Good luck...

 

FWIW they did a throttle bottle reset and a transmission reset and the problem went away after the throttle body reset. I was able to repeat it by letting the van idle up to ~1.5k rpms before applying the gas. Always happened to my wife on the left turn on a downward sloping hill.

 

Ditto on the left turn from our downward sloping driveway.

 

So, are you saying the problem is solved, Spomm?

 

Yep.

On to the next problem now. The parking brake makes a loud noise when engaging.