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WIX 57356 oil filter - same number, but different

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#41 ·
Pixburd54 said:
I’m prolly the outlier here since I always felt that regular 3K oil changes were more important than super fine filtration.
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You are. Whether you change oil at 3k (not needed these days) or once every year with oil engineered for that duration of operation, better filtration is always a benefit.

GeorgeCLS on the Tundra forums was a tribologist who took care of several large fleets, managing machinery and vehicle lubrication. He used his Tundra as a test-bed, and found that well before even 1,500 miles had elapsed, his engine had generated an entire spectrum of wear particles and combustion by-product particles all requiring filtration.

He performed both VOA and UOA using different filters (OEM Toyota and AmSOil EaO).

In short, nobody benefits from a 3,000-mile OCI when using a low-buck cellulose media filter.

OF
 
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#42 ·
But is the benefit one that makes a meaningful difference in practical application?

Just picking numbers out of the air to illustrate my point: If a great filter will help my crank and cam bearings last for at least 500k miles, but a merely passable filter only gets me to 300k, my '02 with 150k is gonna' be crushed due to rust long before either mark is reached.

Not arguing against your point, looking for more detailed and relevant stats.
 
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#43 ·
It's not so much the crank and cam bearings ... though, they benefit...it's all the other items that receive an unpressurized lubrication source. You want the front and rear crank main seals to last. Same for the camshaft seals just inboard of the pulleys. They need the cleanest oil you can provide to prevent seal surface degradation.

They're not as vital major mechanical items, but man, it sure is convenient not to have the van spotting all over the garage floor and driveway. I hate shaft seal leaks, as they usually require removing a lot of stuff to replace them. If I can prevent this from happening over a 250,000-mile ownership experience, I win.

Another plus: if I can get the rings and cylinders to provide great sealing throughout the life of the van, that's another plus. Both of our vans consumed around 20-to-24 ounces of oil over a 10,000-mile OCI at the 200,000-mile point in their lives.

Regarding the rest of the vehicle going to the dogs before the engine ... I agree. Here's some stuff from glen e of the Driveaccord.net forums, that in a roundabout way, backs up what you're saying, @Ted (I added paragraph breaks):
​
...You’re probably not gonna like this answer, but I believe that because we are all hobbyists here, we “overly maintain” the car. ​
​
In the last 20 years, engines and oils are not your fathers products. Metallurgy is better, oils are better, and tolerances in the engine are far closer in the build quality department. I spent my entire life in the car business, on the manufacturer side calling on dealers as a district mgr rep for Porsche ,BMW ,Kawasaki and American Honda. In that time , I looked at thousands of repair orders administrating warranty, and I am amazed at some of the things I saw. ​
​
I saw engines that never saw ANY maintenance whatsoever, literally never had their hoods opened (leases), and still the engine was perfectly within spec. Some, the oil had turned to jelly, and they were still fine! I think thousands of gallons of good oil go to waste it every year with people doing 3000 to 5000 mile oil changes. Oils can go a lot longer than that and you still have a perfectly fine engine. ​
​
There is something about changing your oil that makes you feel good, I have felt it myself. But you are doing it to make yourself feel better, the engine could’ve gone a lot longer without the change. That’s why , unless you are in some massively dust filled environment, I recommend changing it once a year regardless of the mileage, The oil is still fine at a year, but you are eliminating the particulates in the oil.​

OF
 
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#44 ·
Interesting point, but if the dirt can infiltrate past the exterior of the seal, isn't that happing with external dust & grit? Changing the RMBOS is certainly a costly PITA, but isn't it lubed by splash that hasn't necessarily been filtered? The cam seals are splash, but the oil's been recently filtered to be up in the head.

Does anyone know anyone who follows the maint schedule recommendation of changing the oil filter on alternate oil changes? Meaning up to two years on a filter!
 
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#45 ·
You make a good point. I've changed a number of these seals, and they have two flanges (lips). The outside lip is simply a dust shield of sorts (exterior), the other has a spring wrapped around it to provide tension against a polished portion of the shaft (camshaft, crankshaft, transfer case tailpiece shaft, etc.) that receives splash lubrication.

Here's a pic, "inside" facing up.

Image


It's a splash system on the inside, but that doesn't mean the seal isn't under some sort of pressure. It is, courtesy of that spring. If you can do anything to slow down that inside flange (lip) erosion, it lasts much, much longer.

Filtering particles larger than those that can remain hydrodynamic (live within the lube film without making contact with sliding surfaces) is the goal.

I have no idea what micron size of filtration makes that happen.

So, on that note, to try and meet that goal without knowing the required fineness of filtration required, I just hedge my bets and use AmSOil engineered synthetic media filters for our Civics and Accords, and double-oversized Mobil 1 synthetic blend media filters on our oldest sets of wheels (V6 Acura and the Odyssey).

I was changing oil at 7,500-mile intervals ... well, trying to. So often, "life got in the way" of getting this done one time, and it seemed I was always changing oil at 10,000 mile intervals, or greater.

This actually gets back to the original topic of this thread....

....I started observing the same things @Butch70 observed with oil filter numbers, and points of manufacture. It just made me think that I would have to do some research, and make sure I got the Wix filter I wanted of the right type, in this case, the Wix 51626 for my two oldest cars.

Decided it was just easier to buy a bunch of NOS Mobil M1-207 filters during a Rock Auto closeout and be done with it, rather than deal with driving from one auto parts store to another trying to find a filter that looked like the ones I'd purchased before.

Same for the other cars ... I just buy AmSOil filters in bulk (Ea15K13 fits the rest of our cars), stock up, use five of them each year until I run out and have to get more.

Ted said:
Does anyone know anyone who follows the maint schedule recommendation of changing the oil filter on alternate oil changes? Meaning up to two years on a filter!
Click to expand...
Nope, and definitely not me! As long as I'm underneath a car, once a year, to drain the oil, I change that filter. Am I overdoing it? Possibly, but again, got no idea if it's overkill or not.


OF
 
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#46 ·
Buffalo4 said:
I think they are made by Fram now but when I did my research on them they were the A-01 which was made be a different company.
Regardless, they are made to Honda's specs and their filtering efficiency for small particles , 20 microns is usually what most filters advertise when talking about their filtering efficiency.
Course their is more to an oil filter besides it's filtering efficiency (flow rate, anti-drain-back valve, O-ring , pressure relief bypass valve, container thickness and strength, size of intake holes, filtering media, capacity of dirt, etc).
Overall, the Fram Ultra is still rated as one of the top ones by most independent testers.
I seem to recall that the older Honda oil filters were only rated around 87% at 20 microns, but I could be wrong. The Fram Ultra is rated 99% efficiency and the Amsoil one even higher.
Still, if you change your oil regularly on a good schedule, that should be good enough.
Here is a link discussing microns: The Truth About Oil Filter Micron Ratings - ECOGARD

Many people are still in the 'orange can of death' mentality from 50 yrs ago. :) ;)
Just my opinion.

Buffalo4
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I don't know if its a patent or what but the Fram's sure grip is a very good convenience. I don't know much about their reliability. I also tried using the Purolator One which seemed coated with the same material of the sure grip material that Fram uses.
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
I made the original post May 2022: WIX 57356 oil filter - same number, but different

Enough time has finally elapsed that I was able to open the filters and make a comparison, along with two other filters.

Images - top-to-bottom - WIX China; WIX USA, Carquest, Fram.

WIX China does indeed appear to be the cheapest of the bunch. The WIX USA and Carquest appear to be exactly the same. The Fram appears to have a similarly-sized fileted media.

Image
Image
 
#50 ·
2011.2017.odyssey said:
Mobil 1 filter is hands down the best...
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Any tests confirm that it is better than a Fram Ultra, Amsoil, Royal Purple, etc or is that just an opinion?
And better in what way? Filtering particles, flow rate, dirt capacity, relief valve , container resistance to road damage etc?
Are you talking about the Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil filter or?
Thanks,
Buffalo4
PS: Wonder how long it will take Dave Patel to shut this thread down? :) 🤓 😱😇😇
PPS: I hope all have an enjoyable Father's Day Weekend!! 😁😁

BTW: Nice post, Butch70!!!👍
 
#51 ·
Buffalo4 said:
Any tests confirm that it is better than a Fram Ultra, Amsoil, Royal Purple, etc or is that just an opinion?
And better in what way? Filtering particles, flow rate, dirt capacity, relief valve , container resistance to road damage etc?
Are you talking about the Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil filter or?
Thanks,
Buffalo4
PS: Wonder how long it will take Dave Patel to shut this thread down? :) 🤓 😱😇😇
PPS: I hope all have an enjoyable Father's Day Weekend!! 😁😁

BTW: Nice post, Butch70!!!👍
Click to expand...
This kid does a pile of reviews on filters, mostly cutting them apart for construction quality vs. data on flow rates.

Mobile 1 extended, Wix xp and Supertech are the top contenders for construction quality.

I use either Mobil 1 or Honda original, and can testify to their construction quality and durability, and routinely cut open the old filters after doing oil changes to inspect for metal particles.
This gives insight on crank bearing and internal engine health.

That said, In a pinch I would be confident with either of the above brands, and would avoid Wix non xp filters entirely.

Still looking on a flow rate comparison data sheet for all the above.

@tyman is likely one of the most versed around here on this subject.
 
#52 ·
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#53 ·
Buffalo4 said:
PS: Wonder how long it will take Dave Patel to shut this thread down? :) 🤓 😱😇😇
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Dave Patel isn’t a gun owner and has never held a gun to anyone’s head and forced them to come to this place.
 
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#54 ·
2011.2017.odyssey said:
This kid does a pile of reviews on filters, mostly cutting them apart for construction quality vs. data on flow rates.

Mobile 1 extended, Wix xp and Supertech are the top contenders for construction quality.

I use either Mobil 1 or Honda original, and can testify to their construction quality and durability, and routinely cut open the old filters after doing oil changes to inspect for metal particles.
This gives insight on crank bearing and internal engine health.

That said, In a pinch I would be confident with either of the above brands, and would avoid Wix non xp filters entirely.

Still looking on a flow rate comparison data sheet for all the above.

@tyman is likely one of the most versed around here on this subject.
Click to expand...
"Flow rates" are largely inconsequential in today's modern era. Virtually any filter you buy off the shelf, save for a few random Pakistani/Indian/Chinese el cheapos, are going to have far more than enough Delta P, especially for a run of the mill Honda V6. Biggest things to look for in an oil filter are media size, pleats, efficiency (anything 80%+ for 20 microns is good, 90%+ is fantastic, and 98%+ is amazing - (this is where Wix XP falls horrendously short unfortunately but it's also a "long interval" filter so it gives up efficiency for capacity), and overall construction.
 
#55 ·
dvpatel said:
Dave Patel isn’t a gun owner and has never held a gun to anyone’s head and forced them to come to this place.
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Well, you didn't shut down this thread and you didn't actually address the question.
Very strange reply, indeed. 😱 🤓 😁
Hopefully you will continue to enjoy your day, 👍
Buffalo4
PS: I am a gun owner and I have never held a gun to anyone's head for ANY reason.
 
#56 ·
Buffalo4 said:
Well, you didn't shut down this thread and you didn't actually address the question.
Very strange reply, indeed. 😱 🤓 😁
Hopefully you will continue to enjoy your day, 👍
Buffalo4
PS: I am a gun owner and I have never held a gun to anyone's head for ANY reason.
Click to expand...
Please don’t look for a confrontation unnecessarily.
 
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#57 ·
dvpatel said:
Please don’t look for a confrontation unnecessarily.
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Same advice to you. :)
Buffalo4
PS: Sometimes I am interested in a post and ' poof' you just decide to close it and tell everyone "just use the search function" when someone could just give a quick answer to help the poster and not direct the 'usually new poster' to 'search' for 15min or hours to find the answer. Yes, the SEARCH function is NOT that EASY to use for me and I have been here for a long time. But you tell newer posters to USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.
That's my problem with your closing posts on 'just your whim'.
Course, since you are the Moderator, you have that power.
 
#58 ·
Buffalo4 said:
Well, you didn't shut down this thread and you didn't actually address the question.
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What happened is that the follow up was merged with the original post.
Butch70 said:
I made the original post May 2022: WIX 57356 oil filter - same number, but different
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So instead of two separate threads on the same topic, it's all one big happy thread. 1) No answer since there was no answer to whatever the question was, and 2) no shutting down duplicate threads since the separate parts are now joined together as one.
 
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#59 ·
Buffalo4 said:
Same advice to you. :)
Buffalo4
PS: Sometimes I am interested in a post and ' poof' you just decide to close it and tell everyone "just use the search function" when someone could just give a quick answer to help the poster and not direct the 'usually new poster' to 'search' for 15min or hours to find the answer. Yes, the SEARCH function is NOT that EASY to use for me and I have been here for a long time. But you tell newer posters to USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.
That's my problem with your closing posts on 'just your whim'.
Course, since you are the Moderator, you have that power.
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cmon man...
any other forum your level of admin griefing would get your ass booted.

Stop turning up like a painful case of herpes, and provide more helpful info on the threads.
This admin is among the best around, and contributes an enormous amount of time in comparison to yours.
 
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