Honda Odyssey Forum banner

Select the option that matches your AT/issues.

  • Honda 10AT (10 speed) - Fluid drain-n-fill or software update

  • Honda 10AT (10 speed) - Solenoid replaced**

  • Honda 10AT (10 speed) - Computer replaced

  • Honda 10AT (10 speed) - Torque converter replaced**

  • Honda 10AT (10 speed) - Loss of power on econ

  • Honda 10AT (10 speed) - Loss of power on econ off

  • Honda 10AT (10 speed) - Rough Shifting

  • Honda 10AT (10 speed) - Transmission replaced

  • Honda 10AT (10 speed) - No Issues

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Fluid drain-n-fill or software update

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Solenoid replaced**

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Computer replaced

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Torque converter replaced**

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Loss of power on econ

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Loss of power on econ off

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Dog clutch noise (4-5, 7-8 gears) or Other noise

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Rough Shifting

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Transmission replaced

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - No Issues - Normal dog clutch click (4-5, 7-8 gears)

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - No Issues

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Service Bulletin 19-124 fixed everything

  • ZF 9HP (9 speed) - Service Bulletin 19-124 did not fix anything

Transmission Survey + 9/10 speed detailed info (One thread to rule them all)

42584 154
NOT REPORTED IN THE SURVEY /\
[9 speed failures: 2]
[10 Speed failures: 9]


Not trying to beat this into the ground...just trying to be informative to the community and those that might be experiencing issues. Feel like this should've been created back in 2017/18. On top of that there are so many threads on specifically the 9 speed it can be confusing.

Things to note: 9 Speed is designed by ZF Friedrichshafen Germany, made in South Carolina USA. The 10 speed is designed by Honda in Japan, made in Georgia USA.

Goal of both AT is to save fuel. On average they are fairly the same in MPG. However, they behave differently due to the design. Traditionally AT uses friction clutches resulting in some slip which means transitioning form one gear to another is smooth. 10 Speed is designed as such. 9 Speed on the other hand uses dog clutches between 4-5 and 7-8th gear shifts where no slip can take place, these gears have to in perfect sync for them to mesh together. This results in delayed shifting, a click noise.

ZF 9HP (9 speed)
This AT is notorious and has a pretty bad track record from when it was originally introduced in early Chrysler models. Lots of TLX (2015) Pilot (2016-17) Including MDX had serious issues. Many got their AT replaced. Acura even extended warranties to 10 years on the newly installed AT. ZF blamed most of these issues to how the transmission was programed causing drama. lot of failures with 9HP in the early Pilots and MDX are due to coolant and ATF mixing. This has been addressed at h/w level and with extended warranties. 2019+ has other internal h/w improvements.

This is AT is used still in MDX, Pilot, Passport, Ridgeline in the honda/acura family as of now. Again lots of complaints from the 2016-2017.

On the recent models... overall 99%+ complaints are about shift quality, particularly from 4-5 & 7-8 up/downshifts. This is due to the dog clutch mentioned above. It’s different and takes a little getting used to. ZF for some reason made this into a learning AT. This transmission "learns" how you drive. So Imagine if you have 2+ drivers in the house. ZF even blamed this unpredictable behavior on the customers Link.

TOWING:
ZF 9HP specs are great on paper. Technically it's a bit over built for the Honda J series v6.
Total weight: (wet) 90 Kg / 198.42 lbs
Max torque rating: 500 Nm / 368.7811 ft lbs
(Odyssey: 262 ft lbs)

Even with the great specs Odysseys with the ZF can only tow 3000 lbs.
This may have to do with cooling the unit, Honda never bothered to make this official.
Part:
ATF Cooler Kit (9-Speed AWD)
Instructions for pilot:
https://www.collegehillshonda.com/instructions/pilot/2021/5ezcooler.pdf

It should work on the Ody but the mount points and path for running lines will not exist on the van as is on the pilot or other Honda/Acura's

MAINTENANCE:
The fluid replacement process on the ZF is a chore and unnecessarily convoluted. Expect to pay $350 or more at the dealer. Fluid prices have gone down form $50 to ~$25
for Honda ATF-TYPE 3.1. FYI, it does have a fill bolt on the top and is quite accessible.

To put this thing on neutral without battery you need a key tool (07AAA-TZ3A100) $200. This is also very accessible from the top. (Honda used to just have simple a shift lock back in the day)

Chrysler Pacifica so far is the only vehicle that have tamed this transmission working directly with ZF. Unfortunately Honda is not there yet. Small effort was made with a Service Bulletin19-124.

---

Honda 10AT (10 speed)
This is the future. Most folks report this AT is very smooth and trouble free but there are issues and several failures reported here. This is expected with a brand new product. The 10AT fairly new still so it may or may not have issues. What’s for certain is that even this 10AT will continue to be refined as it gets more application over time. (Personal history, I've never had any issues with most Honda transmissions from the early 90's to now. My parents 03 Ody had 1 transmision replaced at 160k miles. See my list of vehicles)

TOWING:
With the 10AT the Ody can tow full 3500 lbs. No cooler needed. It would be interesting to see if coolers appear on the market when MDX + Pilot switch over this this AT.

Total weight: 220lbs
Max torque rating: 280ft-lbs-354ft-lbs (range form other acuras)
(Odyssey: 262 ft lbs)

MAINTENANCE:
The fluid replacement process is much cheaper/simpler on this AT. Honda ATF-TYPE 2.
The Fill bolt is in the front and faces the radiator and uses a typical 17mm, 6-point head. It is accessible from the engine bay, preferably from the bottom. The drain is the typical 3/8" style. Here is a DIY from smufguy >> DIY - 10spd ATF change

To put this thing on neutral without battery you need to remove the front cover, intake tube, battery and then you need to use an open-end wrench. (Honda used to just have simple a shift lock back in the day)

--------------

No one knows the longevity of the 5th Gen Odyssey. Everything is new and we don’t have any long term usage/mileage to report back. As mentioned 9 speed's primary complaint is shift quality, specifically dog clutches. Not many all out failures reported here. The 10 speed is preferred, shifts much smoother but has several failures reported here. The numbers are too low to mean anything atm. YMMV.

Admins, would love to have this pinned. If this is useless please get rid of it.

---

Honda 10AT (10 speed) fails: 9 reported
(2 failures ^here^)

Honda 10AT (10 speed) issues


---

ZF 9HP (9 speed) fails: 2 reported

ZF 9HP (9 speed) issues
I'm sure there are more...

---

**These are sealed units. AT gets replaced as an entire unit, Dealers do not take these apart. (Please correct me if I am wrong)
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

· Registered
2019 Elite
Joined
·
608 Posts
Thanks for putting it together. Hope it gets credible information included and updated periodically.

Here are few corrections

10AT Facts
- The Fill bolt is in the front and faces the radiator and uses a typical 17mm, 6-point head. It is accessible from the engine bay, preferably from the bottom. The drain is the typical 3/8" style. Here is my DIY if needed >> DIY - 10spd ATF change

- the max torque figure is not fully known to the public (though an article, Just-Auto, listed such a number back in 2015). Depending on the configuration, it varies, though the transmission is the same. In the '19 RDX the rated torque is 280ft-lbs. The upcoming, yet unreleased, TLX Type-S is promoted at 354ft-lbs.

- Weight: about 220lbs dry (with no fluids) - source Gears Magazine: link below.


Resources
- Wards Auto is considered as one of the reputable outlets in automotive world. Their 10spd article is here >> Honda Details Front-Engine, Front-Wheel-Drive 10AT on Odyssey

- Complete tear down and review of components >> Gears Magazine | Planetary Gearsets in a Honda?

- Arturo Valdes' commentary of the 10AT >>

Recommendations
- Your intro about the Honda ATs is not factual. Though there were issues in the early to late 90s, the Honda transmissions have proven to be one of the stout units in the 5/6sp configurations. Unless you are able to provide a credible source graphing the AT stats that you provided, I would leave it out as it is just an opinion.

- Transmission limits are dictated by the clutch plates, fluid used and the torque converter. These fail, before the gears and shafts give way.

- If this is going to be a one stop shop for the 9spd and 10AT, then sources are very crucial so the discussions do not spiral downward. I also recommend you seek a moderator to keep the thread on point.
 

· Registered
2019 Elite
Joined
·
608 Posts
smufguy, thanks for the feedback I’ll go and fix these once I’m at a computer. I’m on a mobile phone and usually get some time to do this stuff when all the kids are napping/late at night.

I wish I had access to this information when buying my van. There is so much noise otherwise. On top of that folks only post if there are issues in these places.
You got it, it is the least I could do. I joined Odyclub about 7 months prior to buying my G5 and it had valuable information that was instrumental in my purchase. I am almost at 55K mi on my G5 in the last 2.5 years (almost) and it has been problem free. Even the recalls and TSBs had no symptoms; I really enjoy the van, but I still love my G1 Ridgeline :D

This community, like many others, have been inadequately moderated and thus you hear a lot of 'noise'. It is unfortunate, but expected. Regardless, it is a great resource that needs to be treaded carefully and information retrieved with certain level of skepticism.
As with every other online community, people either talk about modifications or complain about issues. You wont see a slew of threads and discussions about how their vehicles are problem free.
 

· Registered
2019 Elite
Joined
·
608 Posts
@fuego . Nice job keeping this updated.

My recommendation is to proof the claims. If you can have links to the individual claims of transmission failures as @zroger73 does over at ROC (List of transmission failures), it would nice.
Survey is nice, but the actual threads that discusses the issue and resolution is crucial.

What do you think?
 

· Registered
2019 Elite
Joined
·
608 Posts
Has Honda figured out what's causing these failures or just tossing in new transmissions and keeping fingers crossed?
With the nature of the process behind these replacements, and how the transmissions are headed back to Honda for diagnosis, I would imagine that they are collecting as much information as possible before they make a claim/statement. Mind you, the 10spd will trickle down to many models and they need to ensure issues and failure points are addressed.
 

· Registered
2019 Elite
Joined
·
608 Posts
Makes sense sir.

Are there any 10-speed owners out there that have neared or even surpassed the 100K mark without a hiccup yet?
My 10spd is at 73K and counting with no issues to report. I personally dont know any other 10spd out there with more than 100K. I would imagine other members who are your post and have more than 100K on their 10spd would be inclined to respond.

The Odyssey was the first to get the 10spd and I believe the Accord and RDX followed right behind. Any one of these models could have a good number of mileage accumulated on them and looking at their respective online communities may provide some insight.
 

· Registered
2019 Elite
Joined
·
608 Posts
So the Throttle body cleaning involves what actually?
Taking a rag to the throttle plate and the bore and wiping it clean?. Was your ECU reset after this?
 

· Registered
2019 Elite
Joined
·
608 Posts
per their service manager, they hook it up to the “computer” to actuate it to open position, clean it, then do the relearn.
I understand the 'how' they place the throttle plate to service the throttle body, but I am still confused as to 'what' this cleaning does and improves performance.
A TB cleaning is $250 and the actual TB from a Honda Dealership costs between $170 and $185 (before tax and shipping). MSRP is $237.45. It boggles my mind these service techs just do a 'cleaning' service, which is essentially a reset of your ECU and let it go through the learning process. Insane.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top